PokerStars Casino - Player’s attempt to self-exclude from the casino has been overlooked.

I wanted to close my account permanently at Pokerstars. They confirmed to me that my account is now closed permanently and I cant ever play at their site. Maybe a day later they sent me a confirmation email that do I still want to close my account. Unfortunately I sent them email after to reopen my account. They did that immediately. I have understood that if I ask permanently closed account to be open again, it can be done only after 7 days? (MGA regulations) Also I can't see any terms at their site that you need to verify your account closure via email. I'm also SE from betfair/paddy power(due gambling problems) , but they only have same owner with pokerstars so I guess it was okay for me to play there? Also Pokerstars still haven't send me a copy of that chat regarding my account closure.

Dear Henmah,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Before we’ll contact the casino and ask for their standpoint, could you please forward emails or screenshots showing that you have sent a request for the self-exclusion? My email address is petronela.k@casino.guru. Did you specify in that request for how long you wish your account to be suspended and the reason why?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

I have now sent that copy of me closing my account permanently. As you can see they said that if I want to close my account permanently I can't ever play there again. I confirmed and agreed to that. I was then told that my account is permanently closed, and of course I thought I could rely on that. Why told me those things if that wasnt true? Ofc this is partly my fault too, but as I said I thought I could rely to the fact I couldnt ever play there again.

Also, I can`t find any details at their site that speaks for that. (that account can be closed only after confirmation via email):

I only find this: Self-exclusions longer than 6 months, permanent self-exclusions and extending a self-exclusion period. If you wish to self-exclude yourself longer than 6 months, permanently self-exclude yourself or extend an existing self-exclusion, please visit our Help Center to find out ways to contact us.

Can you find any kind of term at their site that says about account closuring etc.?

Thank you very much, Henmah, for the forwarded live chat transcript. I understood that you have requested a permanent account closure since you were not happy with promotional offers, is that correct?

Let me explain to you what is the difference between closing the account and self-exclusion:

Some casinos use lots of tools for responsible gambling and I would not mention them here. What players can do if they’re unhappy in the casino: Close the account or self-exclude themselves, that are the two basic choices.

Closing an account is simple and has almost no impact - the player can reopen account anytime, and casino has no obligation to the player.

On the other hand, self-exclusion does. If the player successfully makes a self-exclusion the casino agree not to open this account or if yes only under particular circumstances. (after cooling off period and this cannot be done for players who’s are addicted/with gambling problem)

In the case of self-exclusion, if casino failed, the player may ask for a refund.

Do I understand correctly that you have requested later for the reopening of your casino account?

Okay. But if my language is not even english, how can I know what words to use? In my language they both means the same. Also MGA thinks they are the same thing. If I already am told I can't ever play there again, why I would need to give any reasons after? I'm addicted that is why I wanted to close my account. They said it was the error from their side to give that info at that chat, then why now it seems it is only my fault. If someone says to me I cant ever play there again or open an account, why I would think other wise?

And also I don't know could I have been able to withdraw since I already have been told that I cant ever play there again. Maybe it would have been used against me then.

Dear Henmah,

I understand your point of view. Could you please advise if the disputed amount is your winnings or placed deposits after the 29th of April? How much is your active balance now, please?

Pokerstars should give some answers next week. I wait for that answer first and tell then what they decide.

It has been 18 days today for them to investigate my issue and still can't get even estimate how much longer. Very slow.

Dear Henmah,

Could you please advise if the disputed amount is your winnings or placed deposits after the 29th of April? How much is your active balance now, please?

Talletuksia, 0 e.

Have you received any reply from the casino as promised previously, please?

En ole saanut. Olen nähnyt tapauksia, että käsittely on kestänyt tällä kasinolla jopa kaksi kuukautta. Eikö MGA velvoita käsittelemään valitukset enintään 20 päivässä? Vai saako kasino käsitellä valituksia ihan miten kauan vain haluaa?

Thank you very much, Henmah, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef (jozef.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

I now got answer that they refuse to refund any. They say this is the way they act that account closure needs to be confirmated via email. But still, I cant see any sign of that in their terms. I have been told that if this is how they act, it should be seen at their site.

Hello Henmah.

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

Hello Henmah,

Thank you for reaching out.

Please kindly note that when an account is closed, it will still remain in our system. If you change your mind and want to play on our platform again, you'll need to ask us to reopen this account. If you want to close your account permanently, we need confirmation via email as in this case it won't be reopened ever again.

We can confirm that when the confirmation has been sent to you via email you have declined your decision and asked for reinstatement. Taking this into consideration your account was reopened. Later after you admitted to having an issue with gambling your account has been permanently closed and cannot be reopened under any circumstances.

The information regarding this issue and refund request has been provided to you via email by our Complaint Specialists. We suggest that you check your inbox.

Thank you for your understanding. We wish you good luck and take care!

Kind regards

PokerStars Casino

I have asked you many times, where in your terms can I see that this is the only way you close account permanently? There is not any term that says anything about confirmation via email. Also you already asked am I sure that I want to close my account permanently as I cant ever play at this site or reopen account. I confirmed and said yes. Why say things like this if it is not true? If it is error from your side, I really think you should compensate.

I think it is kind of sick that casinos can act how they like without any responsibility. No matter what the terms says or not say. Unfortunately it seems that customers have little or no chance at all. I really think if casino makes a mistake like this it should take responsibility. You could of have said to me in that chat that this account closuring needs to be confirmed via email, I would of have done it immediately. Instead of that you only asked that am I sure that I want to close my account permanently, since I cant ever play this site again/ reopen account. I confirmed and said that yes, I am sure. Of course I think that I'm secure that I can't ever play there again or get my account open. For me this seems that you are just trying to benefit people like me. Also I didnt think that I should mention my addiction since you already confirmed to me that there is No chance for me to play this site ever again. Ofc I would of have if these things wouldnt have been said to me.

And also in your reply here you confirmed my account was closed. This is what MGA player protection says about reopening account:

(10) A notice by the player decreasing a definite period of self-exclusion shall be effective only 

after the lapse of not less than twenty-four hours from the day on which the B2C licensee 

receives the notice, and a notice by the player revoking an indefinite period of self-

exclusion shall be effective only after the lapse of not less than seven days from the day 

on which the B2C licensee receives the notice.

So you did not honored this either.

Dear Henmah. 

Please, could you confirm the casino statement or should we request the evidence to support their claims? I am very sorry, but if it is true, then there is nothing much we can do to help your case. It is quite different when player do mention gambling problem, and you should always mention it. Since there are many players who ask for permanent closure just because they are unhappy with bonuses or casino in general. If you requested account closure without specifying the issue, casino had full right to follow the mentioned process. However, when you mentioned gambling problem, your account should have been closed without chance to reopen. 

Even based on your communication you have provided, you requested account closure right after the support agent rejected to provide you with the bonus you wished. I understand that the casino representative stated that your account will be closed, and you will never play there again, but if the casino statement is correct ("you have declined your decision and asked for reinstatement"), we believe that you are not entitled to receive the refund.

Okay. So why MGA has these regulations if casinos don't even have to comply with that? My account shouldn't have been opened until 7 days after request. And that is a fact. That is also something that protects players. Because you have 7 days time to think do you really want that.

Also I dont think people would normally want to close account permanently only for that. I think that permanent closure always indicate something, but that is only my opinion. If someone gets annoyed for not be able to play more (not get the bonus to play more) , I think it tells something. But yes, this is only from my point of view. And someone who has not experienced addiction like this, can't really see these things. And yes, maybe then I'm not able to get refund. But I'm glad there is also casinos that acts fairly, sees customer's point of view and is generous, even when they wouldn't have to.

Hello Henmah.

I am sorry, but that is our opinion on your case when we consider your behaviour, casino T&Cs and our Fair Gambling Codex. Based on your communication with the casino, it is not clear that you have a gambling problem. There are many reasons why players do close their accounts permanently. The casino team were not aware of your issue, therefore they could not prevent you from playing.

Regarding the MGA compliance, I would recommend you file an official complaint with MGA (licensing authority of the casino). I will gladly help you with it, you can reach me at my email address mentioned below. 

Unfortunately, I am forced to reject your case, since we believe that you are not entitled to receive the refund. 

Best regards, Jozef

jozef.k@casino.guru