Casinoin - The player struggles to withdraw his winnings.

I have several Ecopays accounts with this casino and use them for different purposes and casinos.

I use the Euro account for this casino.

However, the casino is asking for transaction history for unrelated accounts.

I do not trust the casino because they do not give me a clear answer as to why they need it.

(Unrelated accounts contain all sorts of information)

A simple example.

A company accountant has a personal account and a company account.

While the user is playing the casino on his personal account.

Is it reasonable to require a user who plays in the casino on his personal account to provide a statement for his company account?　Please make a decision.

Hello andandjonnyx,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Casinoin. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise since when exactly is the verification process ongoing? Which documents have been already approved and which ones not? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Please note that the casino may request for such documentation as they might need to check your proof of income proving that you have used your own funds to deposit there.

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Currently in the middle of KYC.

We have already submitted about 10 documents.

We have also submitted transaction statements for the accounts used to make deposits.

The casino is requesting an account that has nothing to do with income and is not known to the casino as it should be.

I have submitted a screenshot of the account as proof that the account I used for the casino is mine.

However, the casino is requesting a history of another account of mine that was shown there.

Any material submitted must be used appropriately.

The only information the casino is allowed to use is that the account I used for the casino is mine.

For example, you are the treasurer of this site and maintain the site's accounts.

That does not mean that the site's accounts are yours.

You understand that if you submit transaction history without permission, you will be guilty of a crime.

Another example, you submitted a screenshot of your Ecopays etc. account.

There was a file in the bookmarks of that browser called "Company Confidential Information".

The casino knows that you are in possession of confidential company information and asks you for it.

Is there any justification for using information obtained from a part of the site that was not originally intended for that purpose?

Hello andandjonnyx,

The casino can sometimes request to verify a different account if you did use it in a different sister casino. Also the verification is purely for the purpose of safety for the withdrawal and your date is not used anywhere else.

Unfortunately, in order to withdraw your casino balance, you will have to submit every document they requested.

It is not used in the sister casinos.

Therefore, there is no legitimate reason to request it.

Again, the safety of the withdrawal account is already proven by the documents you have already submitted.

In addition, this casino is currently having problems with a large number of users and is not trustworthy.

The use of information that must be disregarded, on a document obtained for another purpose, is already fraudulent.

Would you submit unauthorized access to your company's confidential information if requested?

Please have a casino representative come here and give us a valid reason.

Thank you andandjonnyx for all the information provided. I'm not entirely sure where did the casino find out about your second account but it must be somehow connected to the casino or the other account. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

I am sending casino the information about the second account in my image.

However, it happened to be included in the image as proof that the first account is mine,

This is information that the casino would normally have to delete.

The casino did not delete it,

I am offended that the casino has not removed it and is asking for that information.

Hello andandjonnyx,

I'm Michal, and I have taken over your complaint. I have reviewed this case, and I will contact the casino to see if I can help. Just so you know the casino can request you to verify every payment method you have used for depositing to or withdrawing from your casino account, but I would like the casino to clarify why are they asking that from you.

We would like to invite Casinoin to join the conversation.

Dear Casinoin,

Can you please provide information on the player's verification issues?

If the information can't be shared publicly, please send them to michal.k@casino.guru

Hello,

We will provide more detailed information to your email michal.k@casino.guru.

However, we kindly ask the customer to provide the requested documents, so his account verification could be completed. We don’t know why the customer is so reluctant to do so, whereas he agreed to the T&Cs of our services upon account registration. The payment methods verification is a standard practice which is held for security reasons:

5.21. For fraud prevention purposes when making payments, including by bank cards or by other payment means, disputing on payments by third parties and investigating such cases, the Company can verify all payments. In such case the Client must provide upon request the following documents:

5.21.1. for establishing your identity and/or verification of your age, your identification documents;

5.21.2. for verification of your address, a bank statement, utility bill, or other documents;

5.21.3. for the validation of a payment transaction or a withdrawal of funds, the documents requested by our partners - payment systems or agents, in accordance with the professional requirements for combating money laundering and illegal financial transactions.

Yours sincerely,

Casinoin Team

We have explained many times that the payment method is an account in Euros.

Japanese yen is not involved in any payment.

The casino says I have a Japanese Yen account, how did you get that information?

The screenshot of the Ecopays I sent to the casino is,

It is only to prove that the Euro account is mine.

The casino had to remove irrelevant information that was on there.

Why didn't you remove it?

・Use documents submitted by us for purposes other than what they were intended for

・Requesting information on an account unrelated to payment, while claiming to verify the payment method.

I cannot trust a casino that engages in these kinds of fraudulent and unexplainable behavior.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I somehow understand your concerns about sharing confidential information, however, casinos are entitled and often even required to engage throughout KYC and AML checks of the players by their licensing authorities.

It is not something the casino has made up on you, this is an industry standard and the players are required to provide the documents needed to successfully finish the KYC and AML checks.

I can only advise you to please provide the documents as mentioned by Casinoin Team, so that we can move your complaint forward.

Yes, I am. I have already submitted my Euro account history.

As I have explained several times, I am not allowed access to the Japanese Yen history.

It is impossible to prepare for this, and we are troubled by the constant requests for it.

If the casino insists on requiring the documents, but it is impossible to provide them, it may be tantamount to denial of withdrawal.

Or are you asking me to hack my company's system and submit my my company's information?

I have used other casinos that have contracts with this casino's license,

I have never experienced such an inexplicable request.

Ask the casino why they need the information from the company account and not the account the user is using for deposits and withdrawals.

It is only an example. However, the casino should not be able to tell whether the account other than the one I use for deposits and withdrawals is a personal gambling account or a company account.

But if the casino demands it, it means that they insist that they need my account even if it is a company account.

If the casino explains it properly and the casino guru puts it on the casino as a precaution,

I am prepared to be charged with a crime and submit the paperwork.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm sorry, but I don't fully understand what you mean by " As I have explained several times, I am not allowed access to the Japanese Yen history."

You can't access your Ecopayz in Japanese Yen history or a different payment method? Please elaborate.

For example, you are the accountant for this site.

You handle the site's accounts.

But it is not your account.

You may not use the money without permission, and it is also a crime to submit your transaction history.

Accounts typically have a variety of uses.

Personal accounts, shared accounts, company accounts.

Some can be criminalized if used by an individual without permission.

The same goes for transaction history; if dealing with a serious party, it is undesirable to submit it.

(This is just an example.)

All the casino knows is that I am using my Euro account to make deposits and withdrawals to the casino.

As for the other accounts, they should only know that they exist.

The existence of this information also happened to be in a document that was submitted for another purpose, and it should have been deleted.

Don't you think it is outrageous to ask me to submit my transaction history when they don't know what account I am using or to what extent I am authorized to do so?

I think the casino doesn't understand that "my accessible account" and "my personal account" can be different.

If they make this mistake, should I submit my Ecopays documents blacked out except for the deposit and withdrawal accounts?

Dear andandjonnyx,

Thank you for your clarification attempt, but I only can repeat that casinos are entitled and often even required to engage throughout KYC and AML checks of the players by their licensing authorities.

It is not something the casino has made up on you, this is an industry standard and the players are required to provide the documents needed to successfully finish the KYC and AML checks. All documents you submit to the casino are treated as confidential. As part of the Anti-money laundering check and source of wealth verification all your transaction on the statements need to be clearly visible, so if you black out any entries, this could be understood by the casino security team as intentional "covering up", so I would strongly advise you not to do it.

As I mentioned before, without the documents requested by the casino I'm afraid we would not be able to move with your complaint further, so I kindly ask for your cooperation.

I understand.

But as I explained, there is no actual access.

Your company has controlled access to prevent fraud, right?

Only the Euro account is accessible.

I was using my Euro account to prevent these problems in the first place.

Let's called the casino representative and explained those circumstances,

Casinos should propose alternatives.

It should be the casino's job to examine whether the requested documents are available in the first place.

When we exchanged emails, the casino mistakenly thought that the Japanese Yen account was my personal account.

I believe that is why they requested my transaction history.

I want the casino to understand that my personal account is in Euros and that I can only access information about it,

Of course, access is possible if the casino provides a proper explanation,

However, the above explanation is not sufficient in the current situation where information abuse has already been discovered.

Then ask them to show me what documents they need for KYC and AML.

Dear Casino

The Japanese Yen account you are requesting is in effect someone else's account.

(shown on my Ecopays account = not my only gambling account)

I have looked at the casino's terms and conditions and licensing policies,

I don't believe they require someone else's account information.

Why didn't they remove the information?

Please explain why you need someone else's account information.

Dear Casino Guru

What I am trying to black out is the unnecessary information that has migrated into the screenshot.

I have submitted all the Euro transaction details.

This trouble was the result of the casino trying to use irrelevant information that migrated to the screenshot,

This is due to the fact that they mistakenly thought that it was my personal gambling account and that they were free to handle it.

(I did not tell the casino anything about my Japanese Yen account.

If the casino knew about it, they obtained it through back channels, which is fraudulent.)

In order to prevent this, I should provide only the necessary information.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm sorry for my late reply.

Just so you know as a part of AML check is proof of income. Please understand that the requested information is necessary for the casino to make sure that your funds have been obtained legally and that you have enough funds to participate in the betting. AML (Anti-Money Laundering) Regulations for Gaming and Gambling Industry are usually set by the Licensing Authority and all the serious and licensed casinos have to comply with and follow these policies.

As you mentioned

Does this mean that someone else has sent you funds to your Ecopayz account and you used these funds to deposit in the casino?

As I have explained many times, I do not use a Japanese Yen account for this casino.

I withdraw from my Euro account to the casino.

I have separate proof of my income, but the casino does not ask for it.

This casino and my Japanese Yen account are completely unrelated.

Nor is it a gambling account that I have at my disposal.

Therefore, it is physically impossible for me to obtain the documents.

Even if you knew about the existence of the account on this site, you would not be able to access it freely, would you?

The account on this site is not the accountant's personal account either, is it?

Even if you are the president of the company, you should not be free to handle company accounts.

That is why I described it as someone else's account.

To put it simply, you are not Japanese, are you?

However, the casino requires a Japanese driver's license as a KYC.

It is impossible to submit it because it is not available in the first place.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I understand what you are saying. Does this mean that someone else has sent you funds to your Ecopayz account and you used these funds to deposit in the casino? Can you please answer my question?

No, it is not.

Ecopayz-EUR-account

Ecopayz-YEN-account

Are you understand that these two are first of all different?

The figure is presented in an easy-to-understand manner.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I would understand and maybe even agree with you on this if there really were NO transactions between the Ecopayz-YEN-account and the Ecopayz-EUR-account, but you are missing the point that there ARE quite significant transactions between the Ecopayz-YEN-account and Ecopayz-EUR-account and you have used the funds that came from the Ecopayz-YEN-account to your Ecopayz-EUR-account as a deposit to the casino that's why the casino is entitled to request you to verify the Ecopayz-YEN-account.

So again, you need to please understand that the requested information is necessary for the casino to make sure that your funds have been obtained legally and that you have enough funds to participate in the betting. AML (Anti-Money Laundering) Regulations for Gaming and Gambling Industry are usually set by the Licensing Authority and all the serious and licensed casinos have to comply with and follow these policies.

It is not something the casino has made up on you, this is an industry standard and the players are required to provide the documents needed to successfully finish the KYC and AML checks.

As I mentioned before, without the documents requested by the casino I'm afraid we would not be able to move with your complaint further, so I kindly ask for your cooperation.

Yes. But because YEN accounts are not at my disposal,

I have no access to the transaction history.

Can you freely obtain the transaction history of the account of the company that pays your salary?

Regarding depositing money from my EUR account to my YEN account,

The casino is not talking about that at all.

Therefore, that is not a reason.

When casinos request information on Japanese Yen accounts,

'Because it showed up on my Ecopayz screen.

This was the reason.

The casino never asked me why deposited fromYen account to EUR account, or what the Yen account meant in the first place.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Please forward me the same Ecopayz-EUR-account statement you have provided to Casinoin to my email michal.k@casino.guru

I sent an email.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Thank you for your email, I have received it successfully. I have requested additional information from the casino to shed more light on the situation.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hello,

The reply was sent to michal.k@casino.guru and we are waiting for the feedback on it.

Thank you

Dear Casinoin team,

I have replied to your email.

Dear andandjonnyx,

We had an internal discussion as the whole complaint team about this case and we come to the conclusion that the requirement of the casino to provide the statement from Ecopayz-YEN-account is valid. Can you please clearly state that the Ecopayz-YEN-account is yours? If it's not yours, whos is it?

My company.

Perhaps it would be better to say that it belongs to me and my stakeholders.

When I created my account I temporarily put my compensation into my EUR account.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Thanks for the clarification, so you should be able to provide the statement of "your" Ecopayz-YEN-account to the casino.

If it were my personal account, that might be true.

But in fact it is not only for my personally, and I need permission for provide the statement.

(Do you have unfettered access to the information on this site?

If you ask a representative of this site for a statement of the account that pays your salary, is it easy to get one?)

Dear andandjonnyx,

Please understand that the requested information is necessary for the casino to make sure that your funds have been obtained legally and that you have enough funds to participate in the betting. AML (Anti-Money Laundering) Regulations for Gaming and Gambling Industry are usually set by the Licensing Authority and all the serious and licensed casinos have to comply with and follow these policies.

It is not something the casino has made up on you, this is an industry standard and the players are required to provide the documents needed to successfully finish the KYC and AML checks.

As I mentioned before, without the documents requested by the casino I'm afraid we would not be able to move with your complaint further, and we would be forced to reject your complaint. It should be in your own interest to cooperate with the casino.

How can a company employee obtain the transaction history of his or her company account?

Dear andandjonnyx,

When you received compensation or shares or a salary you need to have some kind of proof for this. A payslip for example. How can you prove that the funds or source of wealth is legit?

Please understand that it is your responsibility to provide such proof to the casino.

No such thing exists because the laws are different.

I will negotiate with the owner, but this matter (using information obtained for other purposes) is considered a problem in the domestic online casino community,

Please understand that the casino and this site will lose credibility in Japan.

Dear andandjonnyx,

You agreed with the casino's terms and conditions when you created your casino account. The casino has this stated in its terms and conditions:

J. INVALIDATION OF TRANSACTIONS/FRAUD/ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING

2. For fraud prevention purposes when making payments, including by bank cards or by other payment means, disputing the payments by third parties and investigating such cases, the Company can verify all payments. In such case the Client must provide upon request the following documents:

2.1. for establishing your identity and/or verification of your age, your identification documents,

2.2. for verification of your address, a bank statement, utility bill, or other documents,

2.3. for the validation of a payment transaction or a withdrawal of funds, the documents requested by our partners - payment systems or agents, in accordance with the professional requirements for combating money laundering and illegal financial transactions. 

As well as

4. Upon the Company's request, the Client shall provide other documents necessary for the verification of payment (including in the case of a request for a refund)....

So please understand that it is your responsibility to provide the required documents to the casino.

That is not what I and Japanese users are concerned about.

It is about the casino's use of the information in the documents it obtained for other purposes.

It should be in the general privacy policy that it is not used for any other purpose.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm sorry, but this is not in our competence to judge. Although I can somehow understand your point, there is nothing we can do about this. The fact is that the casino is entitled to request the documents as stated above.

You may not like it, and of course, you do not have to agree with it if you feel that you don't want to share such information it is at your free discretion, but we will be forced to close the complaint as insufficient evidence from the player.

Documents prepared.

『This casino may use the documents obtained for purposes other than the intended use』

I would like the above notes to be included in the introduction to this casino.

I will give the Japanese a reminder from me.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Have you forwarded the required statement to the casino yet?

yes.

Thank you, andandjonnyx.

Dear Casinoin Team,

Is the provided statement sufficient to finish the player's verification process?

Hello,

Kindly be advised that the account verification was completed.

We would like to thank the customer for providing missing documents.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused.

Regards,

Thank you for the update, Casinoin Team.

Dear andandjonnyx,

As the casino has mentioned your verification has finally been successful, so you should be good to submit and receive withdrawals. I believe Casinoin Team has sent you an email with additional information.

Please let me know if we can consider your issue to be resolved.

I will notify you when the withdrawal is available.

This case is also experiencing non-KYC issues and will likely be turned over to another intermediary.

Therefore, please treat this complaint as unresolved or frozen.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm sorry, but I don't fully understand your last response, can you please elaborate?

Withdrawal has been completed.

As for the casino's use of the documents for other purposes,

If the casino guru does not give me a proper warning, etc,

I will pass it on to another agency.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm glad that your withdrawal was successful, can we consider your issue to be resolved?

I'm sorry but I don't fully understand this:

"If the casino guru does not give me a proper warning, etc,

I will pass it on to another agency."

Can you please explain what warning you would like to see from us?

『This casino may use the documents obtained for purposes other than the intended use』

Above.

Some of the issues, such as unfair terms and conditions, are presented in the casino's review, correct?

If the casino guru does not take any precautions, we would like to close the case as unresolved and hand it over to another organization.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Thanks for clarifying. I can understand that you might feel that your user experience with Casinoin was not the best, however, the fact is that the casino is entitled to request the documents, as I have previously stated.

You agreed with the casino's terms and conditions when you created your casino account. The casino has this stated in its terms and conditions:

J. INVALIDATION OF TRANSACTIONS/FRAUD/ANTI-MONEY LAUNDERING

2. For fraud prevention purposes when making payments, including by bank cards or by other payment means, disputing the payments by third parties and investigating such cases, the Company can verify all payments. In such case the Client must provide upon request the following documents:

2.1. for establishing your identity and/or verification of your age, your identification documents,

2.2. for verification of your address, a bank statement, utility bill, or other documents,

2.3. for the validation of a payment transaction or a withdrawal of funds, the documents requested by our partners - payment systems or agents, in accordance with the professional requirements for combating money laundering and illegal financial transactions. 

As well as

4. Upon the Company's request, the Client shall provide other documents necessary for the verification of payment (including in the case of a request for a refund)...

So please understand that the casino is entitled to request such documents, and it is your responsibility to provide the required documents to the casino. We can't punish the casino for such industry-standard rules.

As you have confirmed that you have successfully finished the verification and have received your withdrawal, we consider your initial issue to be resolved.

I'm sorry if you feel that you are not fully satisfied with the outcome for some reason, but we can't classify this complaint as unresolved as it has in reality been solved.

After gathering all the information, we consider this complaint to be finished, and no further actions are needed. You have successfully finished the verification and have received your withdrawal. That's why we can close this complaint either as Resolved or Reject it as Unjustified.

Please let me know which of these two classifications you consider the most suitable.

The question we are asking is.

"The documents received will be used appropriately."

The casino has violated the "Use documents received in a proper manner" part of the agreement.

casino have the right to demand the documents if they were used in a legitimate manner,

In this case, we know that it was an improper means.

Requesting documents based on information obtained through hacking is

Do you think it is appropriate?

This casino has had many problems with Japanese regarding KYC,

If the casino guru's side does not properly warn the casino,

an outside agency will take over.

The reason I made this complaint in the first place,

I did not trust the casino because it was discovered that they used the documents i submitted to prove that the Euro account was mine for another purpose.

Dear andandjonnyx,

I'm sorry if you feel that your documents have been used inappropriately, but we can't agree with you on this.

As I've mentioned multiple times previously the casino is entitled to verify all payments and all documents related to this. This is an industry-standard for licensed casinos. If you feel you want to submit a complaint on other forums/agencies, please feel free, but we don't see anything unfair in this.

Please understand that the casino is entitled to request such documents, and it is your responsibility to provide the required documents to the casino. We can't punish the casino for such industry-standard rules.

As you have confirmed that you have successfully finished the verification and have received your withdrawal, we consider your initial issue to be resolved.

After gathering all the information, we consider this complaint to be finished, and no further actions are needed. You have successfully finished the verification and have received your withdrawal. That's why we can close this complaint either as Resolved or Reject it as Unjustified.

Please let me know which of these two classifications you consider the most suitable. If you don't provide a clear answer, we will select the classification at our own discretion.

I understand.

Please assume it has been resolved.

However, another agency will take over this issue as there are many victims.

In that case, the casino guru will be charged for failure to properly investigate and make a decision.

Please understand that there is a possibility that the reputation of the industry will be damaged.

Dear andandjonnyx,

Thank you for confirming that we were able to resolve your initial issue. 

Please be informed that Casino.guru is an independent source of information about online casinos and online casino games, not controlled by any gambling operator. All our reviews and guides are created honestly, according to the best knowledge and judgment of the members of our independent expert team; however, they are intended for informative purposes only and should not be construed as, nor relied upon as, legal advice. We are trying to help players by resolving issues between the players and the casinos if possible, and we are offering this service free of charge. If you are not satisfied with our free of charge Complaint Resolution Center, please feel free to contact another service to deal with your future complaints that is more convenient for you. This complaint will now be closed as resolved.

I would like to thank both parties for their cooperation.

Best regards,

Michal

Casino.Guru