Black Lotus Casino - Player’s winnings have been reduced.

Black Lotus has the following term:

6.2 Match Bonus offers greater than 100% are subject to a maximum withdrawal amount of $1,000 and need to be wagered through 60X. The remaining balance will be voided.

The issue with this, is if you deposit $1,000 and use a bonus multiplier, it is impossible to win, with the maximum return being your initial deposit.

Such a term should not be allowed, as it gives players that deposit lower amounts a different implied return than for players who deposit $1,000 (no possible return). There should be no such discrimination allowed to penalize a player depositing more money.

Having not seen the inconspicuous line of text quoted above, I deposited $1,000 and met all other playthrough requirements (60x with a 4.55x bonus) (I was forced to wager $273,000) on slots and made a profit of $14,821.

Since this bonus should have not been allowed to be on my account in good faith, as it gave me literally 0% chance to win, it should be retroactively removed. I was never down even $1 at any point (I have all of the playthrough history), I should get to keep the entirety of my winnings less the bonus.

Additionally, the above term should be removed or revised from the website, as this is a large discrimination between different types of players (high stakes versus low states), and dramatically changes the odds that a player would receive. A casino's bonus should never limit a player into receiving no profit, even under the best circumstances, and instead should be issued in good faith.

The Company initially allowed me to withdraw all $15,821. I spoke with two representatives who gave no indication that there might be an issue. This withdraw was pending for 48 hours and was "processed" before an admin reversed the transaction and sent me $1,000 via BTC (which was my initial deposit). The rest of my funds have been confiscated. This is not an acceptable outcome.

Thanks,

Seth

Dear Seth,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

I have checked the general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found:

„6.2 Match Bonus offers greater than 100% are subject to a maximum withdrawal amount of $1,000 and need to be wagered through 60X. The remaining balance will be voided."

I would like to emphasize, that according to our Fair Gambling Codex https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#win-limits, we consider imposed win limit to be unfair and predator, only when it’s applied to a real money game, however, we accept bonus T&Cs that restrict the maximum cash out from a bonus play.

However, it is obvious that this rule doesn't make any sense in cases when players deposit higher amounts.

If there’s any relevant communication, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru.

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve your problem as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hi Petronela,

Thank you for the detailed response! Unfortunately, all of my communications with the casino have been via phone. I would be happy to record a phone conversation with them and email it to you, if that would be useful. Is there anything else that you would suggest I do in the mean-time?

At the very least, I appreciate you taking the time to read my note and validating me here.

Thank you,

Seth

Thank you very much, Seth, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello, Seth,

I am sorry to hear about your negative experience.

Firstly, I would like to put the above rule (6.2) in perspective.

It does not matter how much you deposit or how high your stakes are (within the limits) - these rules are clear and valid for everyone who redeems a "match bonus" of 100% (or less) of a deposit amount. It depends on the bonus amount.

Now I would like to invite Black Lotus Casino's representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Black Lotus Casino Team, could you provide us with an explanation for the situation from your point of view? Was the player accused of violation of other terms? Why does the casino offer such a bonus, that the player does not have any chance to withdraw more than deposited? Is it a system/software error, that allows the players to activate this bonus with the same deposit amount as the maximum cashout is? What is the point of this type of bonus? Can you reconsider your decision to confiscate the player's winnings in this case?

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

Thanks for following up. I would also like to point out, that I was never down (even $1) through the entire $273,000 playthrough, so I never depended on any funds outside of my initial deposit to secure my winnings. I look forward to the Casino's response.

We would like to ask Black Lotus Casino Team to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’, which will have a negative impact on the casino's rating.

Hello,

My name is Colin and represent this group of casinos...

Even though I do not deal with player complaints, I am forwarding this email on to the relevant department to assist further.

Though from what I have read here is my opinion.

1) Match Bonus was claimed and used, regardless of player doing this by accident or not.

2) Terms and conditions are in place with bonuses for a specific reason of players not being able to abuse these match bonuses

3) Wagering must always be met in order to withdraw winnings.

I am now forwarding this onto our CS management team to assist further...

Hopefully the above is of assistance

Colin

Hi Colin,

Could you please address Branislav's comments copied and pasted below? Specifically, I want to understand how a casino can offer a 60x playthrough on a bonus with no possibility of winning on a $1000 deposit.

Dear Black Lotus Casino Team, could you provide us with an explanation for the situation from your point of view? Was the player accused of violation of other terms? Why does the casino offer such a bonus, that the player does not have any chance to withdraw more than deposited? Is it a system/software error, that allows the players to activate this bonus with the same deposit amount as the maximum cashout is? What is the point of this type of bonus? Can you reconsider your decision to confiscate the player's winnings in this case?

No one is debating that you have terms that state a player cannot withdraw more than $1,000 on a bonus. Rather the question is, how that makes sense in this situation...

1) Match Bonus was claimed and used, regardless of player doing this by accident or not. - This is well understood.

2) Terms and conditions are in place with bonuses for a specific reason of players not being able to abuse these match bonuses - A 60x playthrough was a completed, which for many casinos is sufficient protection. A standalone 60x playthrough has excellent odds for casino to take all of the money from the player. Is there a claim against me that there was abuse? How is this relevant?

3) Wagering must always be met in order to withdraw winnings. - This was completed...

Again, I encourage you to address specifically that if you deposit $1000 and use a bonus of 100% of greater, you cannot possibly win. I do not want to hear any other hypothetical situations about a lesser amount deposited.

Thanks,

Seth

I would also like to mention that Black Lotus support has failed to call me back on two different occasions regarding this matter. I was told this would be transferred to their "finance team", and have not heard from Black Lotus phone support since (over a week ago).

Hello

Apologies in possibly misunderstanding what i read.

If a player meets wagering then they can always withdraw their winnings.

As also mentioned, I do not deal with player complaints, and have someone from the CS management team looking into this specific complaint.

Have a great weekend Guys, and I am sure the player will be contacted directly in the coming days

Colin

Thank you Colin

Greetings all,

Thank you, Colin, for providing the information.

Dear Seth,

Once there is any progress in your issue or you are contacted by the casino's CS, please let us know about the update.

Thanks and have a nice weekend.

Hi,

I have still not been contacted by the CS management team or anyone else representing Black Lotus this week.

Thanks,

Seth

Following up for you

Thanks

Hello

So my CS team have been in touch and explained the max cashout rules on bonuses.

The player will not accept even with the full clarity.

Thanks

Colin

Hi Colin,

This is the latest that I have received from the casino, "I will see if there is anything more we can do. Unfortunately, it seems as if the bonus code was not applied by use, so we cannot be held liable. I also cannot make any promises, but I will see what I can do."

I am looking for a response to Branislov’s comments "Dear Black Lotus Casino Team, could you provide us with an explanation for the situation from your point of view? Was the player accused of violation of other terms? Why does the casino offer such a bonus, that the player does not have any chance to withdraw more than deposited? Is it a system/software error, that allows the players to activate this bonus with the same deposit amount as the maximum cashout is? What is the point of this type of bonus? Can you reconsider your decision to confiscate the player's winnings in this case?"

A response to these questions have been asked four times now. I feel that is not too much to ask considering how much money in on the table here.

Thanks,

Seth

As mentioned before, I do not take anything to do with players, other than assist in getting you to the right people.

The CS team have been in touch and from my part there is really little more O ccan do to assist

Regards

Colin

Can you relay the questions quoted above to the "right people"?

Thanks,

Seth

Dear Colin,

Can you please help the player with contacting the CS team and also ask the team to investigate this specific case? We have not received any relevant response or explanation about this situation until now. Were you provided with an explanation?

Hi,

Should I post my correspondence with the casino? I’m not sure it will be helpful, as no one has attempted to provide any clarification on the matter and only restate the T&C that’s in the subject of this complaint.

Thanks,

Seth

Hello, Seth,

If there are no news or progress, it is not necessary.

However, in this case, the bonus represents "free money", which are credited to your account in addition to your deposit. Therefore the casino can limit "free money" by conditions in such manner as it deems appropriate. These terms and conditions are accepted by the players upon signing up. The rules are clear and rule 6.2 applies to higher bonus amounts, as I stated above.

Casinos offer bonuses as a form of entertainment. More "free money" means more fun and a higher chance to win and meet the wagering requirements. An advantage of the higher bonus amount. Especially when wagering is counted after losing a deposit.

We are talking about an exceptional situation. I will also discuss the case internally.

Until Colin replies, in the meantime, can you please provide me with the exact information about the bonus that you used? Are there any special terms and conditions? Was the wagering counted after losing the deposit? I was not able to find this information on the casino's website.

Please just wait till I talk to my team...

I'll get answers

Dear Colin,

Have you already been provided with any information or explanation?

Hello, Colin,

We have not heard anything from you for a long time. Could you please provide us with an update or answers to my previous post? We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will be forced to close the complaint.

Colin,

It would be wonderful if you are sincere in getting in touch with the casino and "getting answers" to the questions/concerns stated numerous times. I plan on following up with as many casino forums and seeing what legal avenues are available to me.

Thanks,

Seth

I am sure a casino rep has been in touch with the player

I'll follow up first thing again

I can assure you they have not. Could we see correspondence between you and the casino? I haven’t heard anything from the Casino since March 16. I’m yet to receive a response to these questions:

Dear Black Lotus Casino Team, could you provide us with an explanation for the situation from your point of view? Was the player accused of violation of other terms? Why does the casino offer such a bonus, that the player does not have any chance to withdraw more than deposited? Is it a system/software error, that allows the players to activate this bonus with the same deposit amount as the maximum cashout is? What is the point of this type of bonus? Can you reconsider your decision to confiscate the player's winnings in this case?

Greetings all,

After internal discussion with my team, this seems to be the case, as I mentioned in one of my posts above, where I outlined that the casino has the right to set the conditions for bonus money as it sees fit. We are talking about the "free money" you are provided by the casino. The casino acted within its terms and conditions. You accepted them upon registration and redeeming the bonus.

Moreover, I asked you a few questions in the same post. You have not answered them until now. At the moment, it is just a matter of whether the casino is willing to reconsider its decision and return your winnings, which would be an exception and the casino's goodwill to do so. If the casino's decision is final, we cannot do more to help you in this case.

Colin,

We would like to know whether the casino can reconsider its decision to confiscate the player's winnings.

Have you already been provided with an explanation for this issue and the bonus conditions? Is the casino able to reconsider the decision or is it final?

Hello

I have escalated this to our COO who will personally look into this...

I don't deal with player complaints, but ensure someone will be in touch...

Colin

Until Colin replies, in the meantime, can you please provide me with the exact information about the bonus that you used? Are there any special terms and conditions? Was the wagering counted after losing the deposit? I was not able to find this information on the casino's website.

I used the 4.55x multiplier on a $1,000 deposit. There were no additional terms outside of their T&C’s on the website. I never was down even $1 from my deposit (My bonus was never less than $5,550), so the bonus was unnecessary in securing my winnings.

Sorry I didn’t respond to this before, as I was waiting for a reply.

I understand the T&C’s. I’m looking for a reasonable explaining on how a Casino can accept a players money and give them no chance to win, with this one-off bonus structure under these conditions. I appreciate y’all’s help

Thanks,

Seth

Thank you, Seth, for the explanation.

It is common for a player to be able to play with bonus money only after losing a deposit.

Was your real money deposit/balance $0 when you started playing with bonus money?

No my real money balance was never $0. It was never less than $1000 if that is of any importance. The bonus money and my real money were combined into a deposit of $5,550 and my balance was never less than $5,550 at any point during my 60x play through.

Yes, it is important. You have claimed that your balance was not less than $1,000, but if you played with your real money first (as is standard in online casinos), it means the first wagered $1,000 was your deposit and it was lost by playing. Otherwise, it would not make sense for the casino to offer bonuses. Therefore, it does not matter how much you deposited at all.

Dear Colin,

I would like to repeat my questions above that were not answered yet.

Have you already been provided with an explanation for this issue and the bonus conditions? Is the casino able to reconsider its decision or is it final?

I am not sure how did you mean "I don't deal with player complaints, but ensure someone will be in touch..." - should anybody contact us or the player regarding the issue? If yes - who and how?

In this way, it does not lead anywhere and in case we or the player will not receive any relevant answer regarding this issue, the complaint will be closed. However, the final complaint categorization depends on the result.

There are only 2 options:

1. The casino will reconsider its decision and re-credit the player with confiscated winnings - the complaint will be marked as resolved. We try to help the player, but it is at the casino's discretion because we are talking about bonus money.
2. The casino will not accept the player's request - the complaint will be rejected. The casino was entitled to its decision within its terms and conditions. The player played with bonus money (a better offer, higher bonus money amount...) that has a limited maximum cashout and we accept it in case of bonus money.

If no progress is visible regarding the player's complaint by the end of the next timer, the complaint will be closed according to the available information.

Let me perfectly clear. My real money was not lost. None of it. I can see how was I said was confusing. I am saying that my balance was NEVER less than $5,550. This includes $1000 for my deposit ($1,000 real money deposit and $4,550 match). Apologies for the last reply I made which was a bit confusing.

My playthrough history will validate that I was never down a single dollar from my the $5,550 at any point during the entire playthrough.

Thank you, Seth, for your clarification. Unfortunately, it does not change the fact that the maximum cashout is $1000.

Dear Seth,

After gathering all available information and internal discussion with my team, we are forced to reject your complaint based on the facts that were already presented and explained in my posts above.

If you are not satisfied with the result of your complaint, I recommend that you contact the responsible gaming authority - Antillephone N.V. (Curacao) and submit a complaint to them (certria@gaminglicences.com and/or complaints@gaminglicences.com).

I wish I could be of more help. I sincerely hope you will not come across a problem like this again.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.Guru (branislav.b@casino.guru)