High Country Casino - Player’s winnings were confiscated.

I made a deposit via bitcoin to this casino using a coupon code that had a max cashout of $600. Codes T&C was... 250% bonus with a 20x deposit max cashout and something like a 30x playthrough. I completed the playthough with a balance of $1064.54 at which case my account balance dropped down to the max cashout of $600. I submitted a withdraw and it got declined and put back through at $525 by one of their agents. The problem I am having is the missing $75 in the withdraw request. When they deducted the $464.54 from the account that is supposed to include the $75 bonus money and just leave me with the max cashout otherwise they are advertising a max cashout that is never honestly reachable. I even asked the finance department under which senerio could I have reached the max cashout if they take the bonus after removing any funds above the advertised max cashout. I was met with no answer to my question.

This is the first time out of many casinos that run the RTG software that I have ever had this type of issue with the bonus being deducted after any additional funds above the max cashout other than if I did not end the playthough with max cashout + bonus and at which case it would make sense.

The way I see it they already removed $464.54 and the bonus money should be included in that otherwise they are false advertising what the true max cashout is.

Dear pezking33,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Could you please let me know which bonus code you used to redeem your bonus? I would like to check the bonus T&Cs. The deducted amount of $75 was the same amount as the bonus money you received after activating it. Do I understand it correctly, please?

Also, could you let me know if you have contacted the support regarding this issue? Please forward me any relevant communication between you and the casino, if there is any. My email address is kristina.s@casino.guru or you can post it here. I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Kristina

Hello Kristina,

I have forwarded to the above email any correspondence between me and the payments department at this casino. I used coupon code " WINMADNESS". Per the terms of the coupon there is a 250% bonus, a 45x playthrough on deposit + bonus, and a 20x max cashout. I deposited $30 so the max max cashout on it was correct at $600 and the amount they deducted was the correct amount for the bonus funds ($75).

I guess the main problem I am having is they are advertising that there is a 20x max cashout but the bonus gets removed after any funds over the max cashout thus making no scenario where someone would be able to cashout 20x their deposit. That being said, it is in fact false advertisement.

This is the only casino I have found that runs RTG software that calculates withdraws this way. They had already removed $464.57 as that was the amount over the max cashout and any bonus money, if they calculate like any other online casino would have been included in the $464.57 and not taken out after the account dropped down to max cashout. Otherwise there is no possible way to cashout the max advertised amount on the deposit.

Pezking33, I checked the casinos promotional T&Cs (https://www.highcountrycasino.com/promotions-terms.php section IMPORTANT) and I found this:

"8- Unless otherwise specified by the Casino; all promotional funds (bonus amount) stay in the house upon completing the wagering. Bonus money serves to enhance play and help to generate winnings; however, cannot be withdrawn as part of the winnings. The bonus will not be returned to the account but deducted from winnings by the Casino upon withdrawal. At the point of cashing out the winnings, all bonus money will be removed from the total amount of cash won by playing at the Casino."

Some bonuses are only for playing and they cannot be withdrawn - it is sometimes called "sticky bonus" and the bonus amount you received is deducted from the win amount. Although I understand your frustration, the casino doesn't hide this fact and therefore there is nothing we could do for you in this case. I can only recommend you reading the General and Bonus T&Cs in order to avoid disappointment like this in the future.

While I understand that is in the ToS, which I had read thoroughly before playing at this and every casino, the terms of the coupon say that the max cashout is $600 (20x my deposit) and advertised as such. To advertise an unobtainable max cashout is in the simplest terms false advertisement as well as ethically and possibly legally wrong.

And to say that there is nothing you can do about it is also in a sense false. You have a rating system on here and they should receive deductions for false advertising max cashouts.

The extra $75 is not going to break my bank, but I want it known that I am unsatisfied with the responses from both the casino's support and payments department. As all I got from anyone this far was a simple copy and paste cookie cutter answer that never truly answers my question.

I will ask again and maybe, just maybe, someone here can explain. While attempting to do so, understand that I am well aware of what a sticky bonus is and how every other casino calculates withdraws even though they all have that same portion in their ToS.

Here is my question...

Under what circumstance would I be able to cash out the max amount advertised (20x my deposit) while using the coupon that advertises it?

If that question cannot be answered then it is a clear case that they cannot and should not be advertising a 20x max cashout that cannot be obtained. Again this is a clear case of false advertisement and they should be made aware of it.

Every other RTG casino I have played that has a max cashout on a bonus calculates things as follows to avoid the false advertisement claim....

Example 1.

Player finishes playthrough with less than max cashout...

Casino takes sticky bonus and remainder of balance is available for cashout.

Example 2.

Player finishes playthrough with max cashout but not enough to cover sticky bonus.

Casino takes bonus from whatever balance the player has which drops player balance under max cashout but still close.

Example 3.

Player finishes playthrough well above max cashout + sticky bonus. (my circumstance)

Casino takes sticky bonus and remaining funds leaving only max cashout.

Either way the casino still gets the sticky bonus but is immune from a false advertisement claim.

Its not the $75 that I am worried about. Its the ethics of the matter. I don't like when the advertisement says one thing and then when it comes down to it the ToS says something else. It is the very definition of false advertisement and illegal in most places.

I will be patiently waiting for an non-cookie cutter answer to my above question.

Oh and just a heads-up and to make the my case a little stronger and your job a little easier, read the first part of that ToS over again and you will see this...

"8- Unless otherwise specified by the Casino,..." and this..."bonus money will be removed from the total amount of cash won by playing at the Casino."

It was specified when the coupon gave a 20x max cashout and to get technical "the total amount of cash won by playing at the casino" was $1064.57 so deducting it from there per the terms of a sticky bonus would be the ethical and correct way of calculating the cashout.

Given the casino makes the promotional material and given it flat out says I can cash out 20x my deposit is literally the definition of "unless otherwise specified by the Casino"

Dear Pezking33,

I reviewed your case again, and carefully read the Promotional T&Cs again. I am affraid, that we aren't able to help you. I found this in section IMPORTANT, point 9:

"The Bonus Amount is non cashable and will be removed from the associated cash out."

In this case it means, that the bonus amount should be deducted from the amount approved to withdraw. Removing of bonus amount really depends on the casino's bonus policy. Each casino is different and if you choose to use the bonuses available, you agree to the rules attached to them.

I completely understand your frustration. I am sure you know casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, however the rules must always be followed. You seem to be a highly skilled player and I truly believe you understand this.

Unfortunately, there is not much I can do for you in this case. If there is any additional info you would like to share with me, please do not hesitate to contact me, otherwise I will be forced to reject your complaint. 

Okay so what you are saying is that its clear the rules contradict each other all things considered. Cause it may say that its removed upon cashout but it also states that after the required wagering is finished if the player continues playing then all wins are void. Thus leaving no way to reach a max cashout of 20x deposit. So its okay that we disregard that rule and stick with the one in the casino's benefit. I don't know the laws where this casino's servers are located but here that is called a bait and switch, and highly illegal. No self respecting casino or their team of lawyers would allow such T&C to exist or they would risk losing their license to operate.

Just saying, in your own words that "all the rules must be followed" after previously saying there is nothing you can do that the casino isn't following one of their own rules as one of those rules is a 20x max cashout that is impossible to obtain when applied to the rest of the T&C is a very generic answer and does not speak to the heart of the issue.

Considering my question was never answered and given the rest of the T&C prevents it from ever being able to be answered its clear that only the rules that benefit the casino are the ones followed.

In any case, like I said before the $75 is not going to break the bank, and though I feel that what the casino is doing is not only ethically, morally, and possibly legally wrong I am done caring about the $75.

If you cant help with the $75 then who do I turn too for the rest of the withdraw? It sat there for around a week and a half before they took out the $75 and resubmitted it as $525. Now its been going on two weeks that the resubmitted cashout is still sitting under a requested status. Its not even "under review", or any of the other statuses they use.

This is an unreasonable amount to time considering they have not once emailed me asking to verify my account, if they need documents what documents, where to send them, or any other correspondence related to the cashout other than what I emailed you from the payments department. This step takes long enough and for them never to email and just leave it up to the customer to guess or assume that it will get done somehow is a very bad business practice. It should not be left up to the customer to guess what they need and where to send it or even reach out to them for that info. This stuff is up to the casino to communicate to the customer in a timely manner.

I will not communicate with the representatives of this casino any more than I have to. They are clearly scamming customers with their promotional material and I want no part of it. I will send them any verifying documents they need to process the withdraw but I must be told by either you or them where and what to send.

They did on the other hand they feel it fitting to bombard my email with more bait and switch promotions...

After all is said and done and I have received my rightful winnings minus $75, I will make sure to let every casino rating site know the shady business tactics this casino uses, unneeded wait times for withdraws, and generic responses from support when its clear they are in the wrong.

Hello Pezking33,

I am sure you understand that if your account isn't fully verified, you won't be able to withdraw your winnings. The quickest way to do it, is to contact the casino directly.

I checked the Banking section for you (https://www.highcountrycasino.com/banking2.php) and I found this:

"1. We reserve the right to request documentation prior to authorizing any withdrawal request, to verify the authenticity of the credit card information and/or the identification of the player. Any delays in providing documents will result in cashout delays. For further details on the documents that may be required please contact our Security Department at security@highcountrycasino.com"

Please, keep me updated (let me know when you submit the documents, or receive some message from the casino), so we can continue resolving this case accordingly.

Dear Kristina,

I agree that that is in the Terms of Service. And very well agree with it. Cause anti-money laundering laws are important. Like very important... but read it again..

"We reserve the right to request documentation..."

Notice the word "request" in there....

They have not done so and that is the problem I am having now. Again it is their responsibility to contact me not vice versa.

Since, I have not been contacted I am left to assume that that they have conceded their "right to request documentation" as per their ToS.

Sorry if this seems out of the ordinary but I am well versed in the ways of law and that is what is wrote in their ToS. They have the "right" but that does not mean they exercise it or enforce it. In this case they have not and again this is out of my control.

Sorry if I am being a butt-head, but I am holding them to the terms that they have set just as they try to hold me to the same terms. You must understand that this is not a one way street. They must contact me via their ToS and I will hold them too it just as they are holding me to the T&C of an unobtainable bull crap max cashout as advertised.

It is your job as a mediary to fight for what is right via the ToS but all I can see is that you side with the casino when there is clear evidence to the contrary.

Yes they reserve the right, but that does not mean they need to exercise it. The fact that they reserve it does not mean much of anything legally until they exercise that "right". That being said they have said nothing to the contrary and as far as I can see from the customer standpoint they have not exercised it yet as they have not once contacted me about it. "Rights" are only useful when exercised and if they fail to do so it is a clear indication that they relinquish the "right" under legal terms. Given ToS is wrote under legal terms and binding by law they need to follow the laws that govern their ToS.

It would be up to you as the mediary now to contact them and fight on my behalf given I am agreeing to work within their ToS and T&C of said coupon.

To be honest you should have been fighting on my side all along given the T&C contradicts itself and is a legal cluster F* no matter what the jurisdiction.

Also your response tells me nothing when it comes to my initial question... What documents do they want? Just saying I need to verify via this address only gives half of what I need. What documents need to be sent there? Given that is a direct copy and paste of their ToS is another red flag. The verifying documents need to be posted there within the ToS as not everyone owns or has easily obtainable documents in the US. I on the other hand do and its not a problem, but most do not. As a casino that offers service here they need to make clear in their ToS what documents they require if they so choose to exercise that "right".

Pezking33, I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter who will be at your assistance and contact the casino for you.

Hello Pezking33,

I'm taking over your complaint. I will contact the casino and see what can be done.

I let the customer support explain to me how the sticky bonuses work. It was quite confusing but eventually they stated that the sticky bonuses worked like this: The bonus amount is deducted from the maximum cashout amount like in your case. The casino was invited to participate in solving the complaint. I believe there is not much we can do about the bonus rules, but we'll see if we can speed up the verification process. In the meantime, I recommend you to contact the casino yourself and ask what documents exactly the casino requires and where to send/upload them.

I reluctantly contacted the casino via support chat and sent out the verification documents to the required email. I get that I am out the bonus money, but they should not have bonus rules that contradict themselves. Its deceptive marketing in simplest terms.

Either way they have what they need from me now. Lets just see if they follow through with their end by paying out the winnings.

Hi Pezking33,

Has there been any news?

They required a phone call as well per their ToS and I completed that on Tuesday. As of now, the withdraw is still in requested status.

Alright, I see, let me know when (if) you receive the winnings.

Still waiting... Withdraw is still in "requested" status. I did shoot a quick email over to security@highcountrycasino.com on the 26th reminding them that the phone interview was done and they should have all the documents needed to process the withdraw. I received an email back on the 26th saying they would let the finance department know but nothing has changed as of yet.

Hi Pezking33,

Let's wait for a couple more days and see what happens. I haven't received a reply from the casino yet.

My withdraw has processed and I have received my winnings. This case can now be closed.

Dear pezking33,

I'm glad to hear that you received your winnings. I will now mark the complaint as 'resolved' in our system. Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. Don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Best regards,

Peter