The player was dissatisfied with the casino tournament as there is a maximum win limit for the prize. The casino had informed the player that upon gaining the second place prize in the tournament, the prize money of EUR 3600 must be wagered 50 times and would have a maximum cashout of EUR 100, because it was classed as a "free bonus'. There was no mention of this in the promotional terms and conditions, and due to these restrictions, it would be easier to achieve the maximum winnings of EUR 100 by coming in last place, as you would have to wager a smaller amount of prize money. We considered this to be very unfair and stated that the player should be paid their prize in full. The casino refused to change its position on this, and instead offered the player the same amount of prize money with a smaller amount of wagering and a larger amount of maximum cashout. We still considered this to be unfair, but eventually the player begrudgingly decided to accept the offer as there was no better option. As the player and the casino came to an agreement, the complaint was closed as 'resolved'.
Goldwin Casino - The player's dissatisfied with the casino tournament.
Amount: €3,600
Goldwin Casino
Safety Index:Above averageCase closed
RESOLVED
Case summary
Dear Casino Guru Team.
I need your help and want to let you know about the new cheek on the part of Goldwin.com. There is currently a tournament running (01/02/2023 - 01/31/2023) at this casino and I currently have 2nd place and will most likely remain in this place and the cash prize for this is 3600 euros. When I asked my VIP manager how the money from the tournament is paid out, she informed me that the money from the tournament is treated as a NO DEPOSIT BONUS and must be wagered 50X and the maximum payout amount is NO_DEPOSIT_BONUS 100 euros. I won a total of 20,000 euros this month and deposited over 3000 euros and paid nothing and gambled everything away and that's the only way I was able to achieve 2nd place in the tournament. It doesn't say anywhere in the Tournament T&Cs or regular T&Cs that this is like my VIP manager told me. What kind of tournament is this if I can pay out a maximum of 100 euros and also have to wager 50 times?? It's even better to get 10th place, for example, because then there's less money and it's easier to implement, and most importantly, less money is needed to get 10th place. This is FRAUD at the highest level. Please try to help me because it is unacceptable for a licensed casino to rip off players in such a cheeky way. Best regards
Hello justuskab,
Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Goldwin Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.
Could you please advise if you did save the conversation with the casino and if yes, please forward it to nikolas.b@casino.guru. Did you ask about the price through e-mail support as well. When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?
I was checking the tournament rules as well and did not see any reference there for a maximum win limit. I would recommend to wait out the end of the tournament to see what will exactly happen as the live chat support might have wrong information.
Looking forward to your answer.
Regards,
Nick
Hello Nick,
thank you for the fast reaction.
I agree with you that we should wait for the tournament prize to be paid out first. According to the terms and conditions, this will take place on February 1st, 2023. Unfortunately, my complaint concerns not only the maximum payout limit of 100 euros, but also the alleged turnover conditions before the payout. They should be around 50x. In my case, I get €3600 and then I have to wager it 50x, which means I have to spin €180,000 before I can withdraw €100.
So, as I said, it cannot be that I made turns for about 300,000 euros for 2nd place and then received 3600 euros (DEMO money). At every other casino I know, the tournament funds are pure cash.
Best regards
Hello Nick,
As suspected, Goldwin.com is actually attempting to defraud. Today is the day I should have received my prize money of 3600 euros. I got the email from the casino manager to claim my prize money in live chat. The live chat wanted to credit me the money, however I was asked to confirm that the money has a 50X wagering requirement and the maximum cash out from the prize fund is €100.
You want this confirmation because the terms and conditions or tournament terms and conditions do not state that the prize money from the tournament is a bonus and with my confirmation you want to convert my cash into a bonus. This is how you lure your players into a tournament, so that the players deposit a lot in order to achieve the high price and in the end convert this into a bonus so that they don't have to pay out anything.
When I asked where it should say that the tournament prize is a bonus, I only got a reference to the bonus conditions, but when I asked where it should say that the tournament prize is a bonus, I of course didn't get an answer because it was nowhere stands.
Just the fact that the live chat keeps stating that I have to accept the wagering requirements of X50 confirms that the casino is aware that you are attempting to scam. Because if this thing with 50X and a maximum payout of 100 euros had been in line with the terms and conditions, then there would be no need to get this confirmation from me.
I have also been told that if I don't confirm that I want 3600 euros with 50X and max 100 euros by 23:59:59 GMT then the money will be forfeited. Of course I didn't confirm this, because with this confirmation my 3600 euros become ZERO anyway.
My VIP manager also repeated the whole content of the fraud attempt via WhatsApp.
This tournament is still visible on Goldwin.com and is called: Wealth Masters
Get the fortune of your dreams!
I would like to mention here the advertising from this tournament and it is as follows:
Your ticket to high society is finally here. Reach the pinnacle of luxury by entering the Wealth Masters tournament. Enjoy a life of prosperity, mingle with the richest people in the world and play a little game of chance that could help you amass a fortune that dwarfs all others.
Wager big in the tournament games and win a share of the glittering €/$16,000 prize pool. Are you ready to become richer than you ever imagined?
This advertisement makes it clear how stupid this "casino" wants to sell their players.
If the tournament T&C or any other T&C had said that the prize money was a bonus with a 50X and 100 euro payout, then nobody would have deposited a lot of money to get a higher place.
It's just cheekiness on the part of the casino behind the scenes to cheat their players to write something like this in the tournament: "Wake big on the tournament games and win a share of the glittering €/$16,000 prize pool. Ready, richer become than you ever imagined?"
When contacting the casino, please ask where it says that a tournament prize is a bonus. So we save time because the casino will direct you to the bonus terms first without asking this question.
Best regards
I forgot something
if you think it can't be any worse than it already is, then it is.
It was also informed that these 3600 euros can only be added as a bonus if I have no outstanding payouts and no credit on my account.
This means that I have to lose my money, cancel the payouts and also lose today because tomorrow these alleged bonus money expire, with which I can pay out a maximum of 100 euros.
My intellect suffers even while writing this nonsense.
I don't understand why such a casino has a license at all.
I have also now filed a complaint with your licensor (Curacao eGaming).
If this casino does not change your cheating behavior then we should arrange for this casino to have its license revoked.
Thank you justuskab for all the information provided so far. As we will need more details from the casino, your complaint will be forwarded to my colleague Adam (adam.m@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.
Wish you best luck resolving it.
Regards,
Nick
Hello justuskab,
I have reviewed your case and will contact the casino to see if I can help.
We would like to invite Goldwin Casino to join the conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.
Dear Goldwin Casino,
Can you please provide more information regarding the tournament and the rules associated with this prize? Is there a link to the website that outlines these terms?
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
I'm glad you responded so quickly and thank you.
As I have previously communicated, I have filed a complaint with Goldwin's licensor.
The Goldwin has already given an untrue answer to the licensor.
This is the answer from Goldwin:
We have investigated the player's complaint and he indeed took 2nd place in the Wealth Masters tournament which ended on January 31st, 2023 at 23:59 GMT time.
As per the prize pool of this particular tournament, the player won a cash bonus of 3600 EUR which he could have claimed on February 1st, 2023 between 12:00 and 23:59 GMT time.
As the tournament terms and conditions (these can be clearly stated by accessing the tournaments section on the casino main page – https://goldwin.com/tournaments) terms and conditions apply to the prizes these come along with a wagering requirement of 50x and with all limits and restrictions set out in the "BONUS TERMS AND CONDITIONS" section of the Casino Terms and Conditions - https://goldwin.com/terms-and-conditions .
The player was emailed on February 1st at 10:58 GMT of their placement in the tournament and that the prize must be claimed by contacting live chat.
While the player has contacted our live chat support multiple times during the time frame that the tournament prize could have been claimed, he declined to add the prize and insisted that the prize be redeemed under conditions other than those set out in the Terms given conditions.
If you have any other questions or concerns related to this case, please let us know!
This answer also makes the intention clear, as the casino does not name an exact point from the general terms and conditions. The casino cannot do this because there is no such point. Also in the tournament terms and conditions there is absolutely no reference to the prize that is somehow associated with the bonus. As mentioned earlier, this is the casino's deceptive strategy of not letting the players know that the casino has absolutely no intention of paying the prize as money. Because if the tournament had contained any reference to a free bonus 50x and with a maximum payout of 100 euros or any other reference to a bonus, then certainly no one would have been interested in investing heavily to achieve a higher rank. The intent is also evident from the tournament advertisement, which reads, "Bet big on the tournament games and win a share of the glittering €/$16,000 prize pool. Prepare to be richer than you ever imagined ?"
I've been a "customer" at the casino since the beginning of January and was very lucky at the beginning and was able to achieve higher winnings, such as 1x 16,000 euros, 2x 6,000 euros. Thanks to the delay strategy (payout after exactly 5 working days and not 1-5 days) I didn't manage to pay out anything and gambled everything away. In addition, I deposited 4,000 in January. Through these deposits in January I got a "VIP status" and I was assigned a "personal" VIP manager. This VIP manager lied to me all the time (eg that he increased my weekly withdrawal limit from 2,000 euros to 3,000 euros) and for the most part I got insane answers. On February 1st, my alleged VIP status was removed, this was "reasoned" by the fact that there are only a few VIP places and I have to deposit heavily again in February to get VIP status again (what you get from this VIP status I still don't understand to this day). Only through my high deposits and high profits in January could I reach the 2nd place in the tournament. By the replies (maybe who knows, let's see I'll try my best) from my VIP "manager" I'm convinced that if I had already deposited 100,000 euros at the casino and lost everything, then this "casino" would have my 3600 euros paid out in cash.
1-2
2-2
Furthermore, this "casino" has a "reward system" in the form of levels 1-100. I've now reached level 66. For each level you need a lot of sales. For every third level there is a "prize" where you never forget to mention that it is a free bonus from which you can withdraw a maximum of 100 euros. Thanks to my high deposits and recurring high wins, I was able to make spins for around 500,000 euros and that's the only way I was able to reach this level 66. In addition to this "reward system" I had to gain certain benefits noted on the site such as prioritized payouts, higher payout limits. I have not received any of this and upon my request I was told that I do not yet have these benefits and the benefits I should have received from attaining this level are not guaranteed but offer a chance to gain these benefits. (which also cheating, because there is nothing in the terms and conditions about it)
In plain language, this means I haven't paid in enough and just because I've reached this level through mega luck, I don't get these advantages, because normally it takes at least 50,000 euros to deposit in order to reach this level at all.
The casino operates a win-win scam and only wants to pay out at all if the player's losses are significantly higher than his payouts.
If the casino does not change your fraudulent behavior, I will make it my task, with the help of a lawyer (I have legal protection insurance) and the licensor in the Association of State Bodies (Curacao), to withdraw the license from this "casino" because of the abuse.
The abuse and fraudulent acts are too obvious, which is also confirmed by numerous reviews from other review portals.
Best regards
Hello justuskab & Adam,
I hope you are both well!
I went through the many messages left by the player and I will address them one by one:
Regarding the tournament prize:
- The tournaments organised by the casino are considered promotions and the specific tournament terms and conditions, which are stated for each tournament separately, are completed by the casino's terms and conditions.
- For reference, the specific terms and conditions of a tournament can be checked on the tournaments page: https://goldwin.com/tournaments.
- The general terms and conditions of the casino can be checked by following this link: https://goldwin.com/terms-and-conditions.
- The player has indeed placed 2nd for Wealth Masters tournament and won a cash bonus of EUR 3600, which could have been claimed by the player on February 01. between 12:00:00 and 23:59:59 GMT.
- As the specific tournament terms and conditions don't contain any derogation for the prize conditions, in terms of wagering or maximum cash out, the ones stated in the casino's general terms and conditions apply. As the prize isn't linked to any deposit it is considered a free bonus and as such all the rules under Article 7. GENERAL BONUS TERMS AND CONDITIONS apply.
- As can be seen throughout this article, if there is any case in which different conditions apply, these will be specifically stated.
- Furthermore, I have checked the player's history and can see that he inquired regarding the tournament prize terms and conditions and he was correctly informed regarding these on January 16th, 2023, on Live Chat and on January 18th, 2023 on email by his VIP account manager. This means that the player was fully aware of these conditions well before the tournament was completed.
Regarding the VIP status in the casino:
- Regarding the VIP status in the casino, we currently have a limited number of seats available each month.
- The eligibility for the VIP status is considered at the beginning of each month, based on the activity (amount wagered) in the previous month. You are always informed by email at the beginning of each month if you qualify or not for that specific month.
Regarding the casino's rewards program:
- The casino's rewards program is a loyalty system introduced to recompense players who are extremely active in the casino. Beside the free bonuses and special deposit bonus offers you can claim based on the levels unlocked, you also get special perks such as higher withdrawal limits, cash back, priority withdrawal processing and even real-life prizes.
- I have checked and indeed the player is currently at level 66 on the Diamond tier and, as such, his account currently has a higher withdrawal limit than regular users.
- At his current level (level 66 - Diamond tier) the player doesn't yet have access to the priority withdrawal processing, this is only unlocked for players that are on the Prestige tier.
- More information regarding the Rewards program can be found here: https://goldwin.com/rewards
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
Hello Eugenie,
They refer to the general terms and conditions.
Then may you please show the point from Terms and Conditions or Tournament T&Cs where it says cash prize is a bonus? Please answer specifically.
Dear Goldwin Casino,
Thank you for your detailed response. I have looked at the terms of the Tournament in question, and would like to make sure I understand the mechanics fully:
- You must deposit at least EUR100 to participate and according to the website "Bet big on the Tournament games, and you’ll get the opportunity to win a share of the glittering EUR16,000 Prize Pool."
- If you wager enough, you will earn the points to win a prize, in this case, EUR3,600 for 2nd place.
- The prize can then be claimed during the specific period but is subject to 50x wagering.
- The maximum cashout from the wagering of this prize is EUR100.
To sum up, deposit EUR100 or more, and the max you can win is EUR100. As the player states, obtaining last place would be better than second place because the 50x wagering would be easier to complete.
Do I understand this correctly?
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
To qualify for a tournament the players indeed need to have at least one deposit made during the tournament period and place bets on the included games in 3 different days.
For this specific tournament the points are accumulated based on the amount wagered on the participating games and the prizes available for each place are indeed stated on the tournament page.
This type of prize, that comes with a x50 wagering requirement and a maximum cash out limit, is intended for wagering purposes and not meant as a directly withdrawable prize.
If you are thinking strictly in terms of withdrawable amount, then I agree it is easier to complete the wagering and withdraw EUR 100.
However, if you take the prize as intended and use it to wager in the casino, then the player can gain several levels in the Rewards program and achieve perks which can count more on the long run (such as higher withdrawal limits, cash back or priority withdrawal processing).
As for the sum up, I believe it is not correct. The deposit is indeed required to qualify the player for a tournament (meaning that the player has played at least once using his own cash and not just with a bonus in the casino), however if the player wins from the bets placed from his deposit and/or the bonus claimed for that deposit - he can withdraw any amount won (there is no limit to wins from deposits and bonuses claimed from them). And in this case he would also get the tournament prize on top to use if he qualifies.
This also doesn't apply to all tournaments the casino organizes, as we periodically have tournaments which give real cash prizes that come without wagering and are withdrawable.
Also, if the player would have won a significant amount from the tournament prize, after the wagering was completed he could have easily requested for an exception to be made for a higher cash out.
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
Hello Goldwin Casino,
Thank you for clarifying, but it still seems incredibly misleading to players due to the wording of the promotion, the fact that there is no mention of the wagering requirements and max cashout of the prize in the tournament terms, and the fact that it is just assumed that the player will determine that the prize is a no deposit bonus and subject to those rules, especially when a deposit is required to be part of the tournament in the first place.
Can I also ask if it is beneficial to players to place more than one deposit of EUR 100 in this tournament? Would doing so allow them to potentially wager more, achieve more points, and a higher place/bigger prize?
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
I don't believe this is misleading for players, as the conditions are mentioned in the terms and conditions and that the players can also inquire regarding them with our support team - as was the case with justuskab who was fully aware of these conditions.
The specific tournament terms and conditions only mention conditions that derogate from the general terms and conditions. The general terms and conditions apply unless otherwise mentioned for a specific tournament.
The deposit condition for the tournament is only meant to qualify players and exclude the players that have only been placing bets with free bonuses from the casino. As such, it has no relevance if a player deposit only once or more times during a specific tournament period.
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
Hello Adam,
as you can see for yourself in answers from "Casino", the intentional fraud is unmistakable.
Instead of showing under which point in general terms and conditions such a regulation emerges,
you just give random answers. People talk all the time that terms and conditions
apply, but are not able to show this and also get an answer as to where it should be
we are not.
The "Casino" enters the following in previous message:
- Since the prize is not tied to a deposit, it is considered a free bonus and as such all the rules under Article 7. GENERAL BONUS TERMS apply.
This also makes it clear that you are not adhering to any regulations.
The tournament terms and conditions state the following:
- Participants must deposit at least 100 EUR or equivalent in another currency during the tournament.
- All real money bets with the required minimum stake value placed on the participating games during the promotion will qualify for the promotion.
So you have to deposit and play with real money, furthermore it would not be possible at all to reach any place without depositing anything. In my case you can see that I scored over 290,000 points for 2nd place, this means nothing other than I made spins for 290,000 euros which cost me over 30,000 euros with my winnings and deposits.
The intention of cheating is also clear in the following formulation of tournament conditions:
- Each player can only win 1 (one) cash prize.
So it says cash prize and not bonus or bonus money.
In addition, I repeat what remains unnoticed or unanswered: Where in the tournament terms and general terms and conditions does it say or can it be linked in any way that the tournament prize is a free bonus or a bonus at all?
Adam's unanswered question should also be answered:
So if you deposit €100 or more you can win a maximum of €100. As the player states, finishing in last place would be better than second as the 50x bet would be easier to complete.
Do I understand this in the right manner?
Dear Goldwin Casino,
You stated previously:
"If you are thinking strictly in terms of withdrawable amount, then I agree it is easier to complete the wagering and withdraw EUR 100. However, if you take the prize as intended and use it to wager in the casino, then the player can gain several levels in the Rewards program and achieve perks which can count more on the long run (such as higher withdrawal limits, cash back or priority withdrawal processing)".
When the promotion is called "Wealth Masters" and is written using phrases such as "Are you ready to become wealthier than you ever imagined?", would you not agree that a player would be likely to think in terms of withdrawable amount?
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
Thank you for your reply!
I understand the perspective that you are looking from, however there is no statement made, for this specific tournament, that the amount is withdrawable directly or that any derogation from the standard terms and conditions applies. As such, the prize is governed by the conditions mentioned.
As for the specific case of this player, as you can see in the evidence which the casino provided to you, he was fully aware of the terms and limitations of the prize - from the moment he chose to enter the tournament.
If there is anything unclear about the terms of a specific tournament, a player is always able to inquire about them to our 24/7 support team.
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
I don't understand Adam or Goldwin. I have the feeling that no one cares what I say. Tournament Terms of Use include the word: cash prize and reference to the Terms and Conditions. Where in T&Cs does it say tournament cash prizes are just bonuses??? I emphasize the word prize again. Also, a lie from the Goldwin is that I knew from the start it was a bonus. How am I supposed to know if this is not stated in the tournament terms and conditions and what evidence is Goldwin talking about?
Regarding this lecture:
" If you are thinking strictly about the withdrawable amount, then I agree that it is easier to complete the bet and withdraw 100 EUR. However, if you take the prize as intended and use it to wager at the casino, the player can gain multiple tiers in the rewards program and achieve perks that may count more in the long run (such as higher withdrawal limits, cashback, or preferential processing of withdrawals). ) .
I have already reached almost all levels and have no advantages. If I had already reached all the levels and won this tournament, what would you have said about the benefits of winning "money" from the tournament? CONCLUSION: any statement from Goldwin is nonsense.
Adam I think we should leave it, if Goldwin doesn't pay out my money or doesn't show where in the terms and conditions it says tournament money is a useless bonus, then Goldwin should get the worst grade they deserve. The fact that Goldwin operates fraud is also evident from numerous reviews by other players
Dear justuskab,
Please be assured that all relevant information, including the Terms and Conditions, is being considered in this case. The evidence the casino refers to is the transcript of your live chat communication with the casino regarding the tournament.
I will be posting our conclusion to this case shortly, I thank you for your continued patience.
Kind regards,
Adam
Dear Adam,
that what Goldwin calls evidence is no evidence. After I lost my deposits and winnings and thus reached 2nd place, I asked in the chat whether I have to wager my money from the tournament 1x or 3x, because these regulations also affect the deposits before you can withdraw, which is not further is bad and only then did I find out about the scam in the chat.
Today I witnessed another breach of Goldwin.com's terms and conditions. In order not to have to write again, I am releasing the content of my email to Goldwin:
Hello "finance team",
You have violated your terms and conditions.
Point 9.8 states the following:
9.8 We reserve the right to cancel player funds withdrawals on their GoldWin Account if the user does not send us the requested KYC documents within 3 days of our request.
As you know, I created a 7 day break last Friday and I won't be able to access my account until Friday. I did this after I requested the payout.
Today at 10:54 a.m. they asked for additional documents (proof of salary) for my already verified account in order to be able to cancel my payout so that I can gamble away my money.
According to your terms and conditions, you should only have canceled after 3 days after you asked for further documents and I would not have provided you with any.
Today at 10:54 they asked for the further documents and 4 minutes later they canceled my withdrawal, which they informed me by email (see attachments)
Since you violated their terms and conditions, make the withdrawal back where it was.
Best regards
I also found out that Goldwin.com also owns Westcasino.com which just so happens to have a good reputation from you guys even though the same policy is being followed. Even the content of the websites is identical and they have the same chat staff.
Unfortunately, I cannot understand how it came about that Westcasino.com has a good reputation from you, since Westcasino.com has almost exclusively negative ratings from you. The few "positive" ratings are certainly not real, because they sound a lot more like advertising.
I would like to address the following review about Westcasino.com that was recently posted by -berlinercasi-:
I've been playing at Westcasino for almost a year now and I keep getting annoyed. The casino generally holds back the payout for a few days, the support states a time of 3-5 days. But 5 days are the absolute rule, here it is hoped that the player will cancel his payout and gamble. Payout is canceled and an asset report is required with the threat of account restrictions, with a fully verified account well noticed! I can really only advise everyone to deposit their money here. What is particularly noteworthy are the bottomless bonus offers, e.g.: Funstarter on Monday (deposit of 100€ mo-mo) and you should get 100 free spins on Mondays, but you don’t get them if there is a balance on the account or that’s it Most anti-social when you have an open payout. Since Westcasino only processes the payout after 5 working days anyway, the free spins are usually gone with it. The trouble is inevitable here, as soon as my payout is through, I will close my account there immediately. I really have never experienced such a withdrawal policy, just pathetic.
Although the -berlinercasi- talks about Westcasino.com, I agree with every word he says that he's right, because the same stuff is going on at Goldwin.com and it's all behind the same people. This can also be seen in my case today, the renewed, intentional breach of the terms and conditions.
Since Westcasino.com is aware that Goldwin.com has made your "company" fraudulent activity known, Westcasino has removed any information from your website as to who owns the license and which company is behind it.
Hence my request to you, Adam, to add the appropriate rating to the West Casino as well.
If I understand correctly, the casino guru has taken on the task of protecting the players from black people (casinos). Now that you know that Westcasino and Goldwin are the same, I ask you to protect players from Westcasino as well. And just because Westcasino has been spared so far is only due to chance and not least because not everyone knows about the possibility of complaints or not everyone does it.
Best regards
justuskab
Oh yeah, forgot to provide additional proof of intentional fraud.
I have asked Goldwin via email and chat to write in future tournament services that the prize from the tournament is a bonus and refer to the bonus services and not to the terms and conditions, where there is nothing about a tournament anyway, or at least only one of them to mention. So the player realizes that this tournament has no value. Any request went unanswered and my request was not included in the new tournaments, which unequivocally proves the intentional cheating.
In addition, I would like to mention that this Goldwin reports here at all ONLY to give itself a little seriousness.
I've now looked at Westcasino.com again and look at they even have the same tournaments and of course the same service. Even in the tournament where I got 2nd place, I'm also in Westcasino.com
Adam I'm sending you the screenshot from west casino.
So clearer proof that Westcasino.com is nothing different than Goldwin.com should your Westcasino receive the same grade as Goldwin.com.
Hello Adam,
I have parallel complaints with other rating portals. Today ASKGAMBLERS evaluated my communication and evidence with Eugenie von Goldwin and reported the following:
Dear guests,
AskGamblers Casino's complaints team has reviewed all the information and explanations provided by both sides so far. Unfortunately, we have not seen any valid statement and/or condition from the casino that could justify its action when it comes to the player's right to claim the cash prize. We have to realize that the tournament participants were misled by the wording of the tournament description itself and its terms. Since nowhere is it written that "cash prize" actually means a free bonus, nor that tournament prizes are bonuses, we must insist that the player's claim is legitimate.
That being said, AskGambles Casino Complaints Service has no choice but to advise the casino to pay out the player's cash prize in full of €3600 and make the necessary changes to the tournament description and T&Cs to avoid similar issues in the future .
Thank you for your cooperation.
The fact that Goldwin has not admitted such an obvious thing until now only indicates intentional fraud and not an accident.
If I don't get my money, then at least the other players should stay away from this "casino" and in this way it will cost this "casino" a thousand times your fraudulent activity, which is also more than fair. As already proven, the corresponding note, the so-called Westcasino.com (Goldwin) should also receive.
I can only hope that the scammers in management are smart scammers, because only then will they pay me my justly earned money, although the chances are slim, since such an obvious fraud could only come from scammers who were not particularly smart.
Best regards
justuskab
Hello Adam,
As already announced, I have submitted a complaint to Goldwin's licensor (02/02/2023).
The licensor sent this to Goldwin after just a few days. Goldwin replied to the licensor almost immediately (same nonsense as CasinoGuru) and I have not heard from the licensor since, although in the meantime I have contacted the licensor via email asking them to take appropriate action. I even shared the link from CasinoGuru regarding Goldwin, so I don't have to write everything in detail again.
My question to you Adam: Does this end the licensor's power (forwarding my email to Godwin)?
I have also read in other complaints that CasinoGuru even recreates the complaints to the licensor themselves to help the players. Can you do that for me too?
Best regards
justuskab
Hello all,
Apologies for my delayed response.
Dear justuskab,
We recently discussed this case at our internal meeting, and it was decided that we entirely agree you should be paid the cash prize in full.
There is no mention of the "cash prize" being subject to the same conditions as a "free bonus", and the wording of the promotional material is very misleading.
While it may be true that the support explained these rules to you via your conversation with them, it is entirely understandable that you would consider they might be misinformed, again because this does not match the description of the tournament in question or the terms and conditions of the casino.
Regarding your complaint to the Licensing Authority, it is standard procedure for them to share all communication they receive with all of the involved parties. It does not mean they have finished looking into your case, and I would recommend allowing them a little more time to reply. Unfortunately, we are not able to submit complaints on the behalf of the player.
Dear Goldwin Casino,
We consider the application of the 50x wagering requirement and max cashout rules to this tournament to be both unfair and predatory. I would like to ask if you would reconsider your position in this matter, and pay the player the prize as advertised.
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
Thank you for your reply!
At this point the player can't claim the prize anymore. The prize could have only been claimed until February 1st at 23:59:59 GMT Time.
While I understand your point of view, there is absolutely no mention that the prize comes without a wagering requirement or without any limits. Any amount given by the casino is a bonus, be it cash or free spins and, as such, carries the rules and conditions mentioned in the terms and conditions unless otherwise specified.
I have shared your feedback to the team responsible for the tournament and they will adjust the marketing for it accordingly.
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
Hello Eugenie,
They say:
"Although I understand your point"
- if you understand, then why keep making illogical excuses and not just cash out my won money?
- we all understand very well what you are pulling here
They say:
"There is absolutely no mention of the prize being granted with no wagering requirements or no restrictions."
- there is also absolutely no mention that CASHPRICE is granted with wagering requirements and restrictions, either in the tournament T&Cs or in the general T&Cs.
They say:
"At this point, the player can no longer claim the prize. The prize could only be claimed until February 1st at 23:59:59 GMT."
- You will probably say next that it is technically no longer possible to pay out my money
The Tournament Terms and Conditions state the following:
- The award ceremony will take place on February 01 between 12:00:00 and 23:59:59 GMT.
- Prizes will be credited as follows: €5,600; €3,600; €2,600
Therefore, according to the tournament terms and conditions, the cash prize will be awarded on February 1st. CREDITED and there is no word on me having to claim the prize via live chat and additionally confirm via live chat that I won a free bonus. This confirmation
the chat employee wanted from me. I kept saying in the chat that of course I want my prize according to the T&Cs, but the chat agent wouldn't credit me the prize until I confirmed in writing that I wanted the free bonus. If the tournament price you are trying to sell us is in line with the T&Cs, why was it necessary to ask me in chat if I wanted a free bonus??? Of course I didn't confirm that because you would have now said that I accepted it and therefore cannot make any further claims.
-So your casino would have given me the price on 1.02. did not have to credit themselves, as stated in the tournament terms and conditions.
Adam I am sending you the email with the chat screenshot where the agent is asking me to confirm.
Another indication that it should never be a free bonus is the fact that this alleged bonus can only be credited if you have no credit on your account and no pending payout. This means that if I had had the credit or the withdrawal request on February 1st, 2023, I would have had to gamble away everything on February 1st, 2023 in order to be able to claim anything at all.
They say:
"I have passed your feedback on to the team responsible for the tournament and they will adjust the marketing accordingly."
- I'll see if you've implemented this accordingly, but don't think that just changing this and not paying my winnings will save your ranking. It is primarily about my profit of 3600 euros.
Eugenie, please stop doing that, slowly but surely none of you can endure this nonsense anymore.
Either your management is smart enough and pays out my winnings or your Goldwin and Westcasino get scammer stamps and get less money and no new players in the future.
We expect the very last answer from you, since everything is now clear to everyone.
Hello Adam,
I would like to clarify one small thing.
I refer to your sentence:
"While it may be true that support explained these rules to you through your conversation with them, it is entirely understandable that you feel they may be misinformed as again this does not tally with the description of the tournament in question or the casino's terms and conditions."
- You are right, but that is not all in this point, and I have already mentioned that on 16.01. When the chat employee pointed out the fraud for the first time, I had already reached second place. The points I already had on 16.01. for the 2nd place, were up to 01.02. not surpassed. So my stakes for the tournament after 16.01. because, as I said, I reached 2nd place before the first contact with the live chat and it therefore makes no difference even if I didn't do it until February 1st. would have received the information.
Nonetheless, none of this matters because, as is so often the case, the casinos will treat you unfairly with unfair
constructed terms and conditions apologize. So you can not do this in this case, since the two terms and conditions in
in this case are on the player's side and the casino must follow them. In addition there is the
Description of the tournament that clearly confirms the attempted cheating.
Best regards
justuskab
Adam today the Askgamblers closed the case as unsolved because the casino kept refusing to pay out my winnings with weird excuses until the very end. This has also been true of Askgamblers, but what is annoying is that Goldwin's ranking has been reduced by ONLY 0.25%, even though the intentional fraud is obvious. Such a low gradation results in players not being adequately warned and will not deter Goldwin from further cheating attempts, they will just become more cautious. I have already contacted the Askgemblers by e-mail with the request to downgrade the Goldwin ranking by a lot more.
Adam please make it short with the Goldwin. Please ask Goldwin if you pay out my money or not?
If not, then I hope that your Goldwin is no longer 3.5 (as it is now) but at most 1.0 points or even better 0.5 points. Because with every day that this case is still open, other players come to harm by this casino, because this is by no means the only thing this casino is doing wrong.
Adam please change the title of my complaint to: Goldwin is in breach of their own terms and conditions
Hello Eugenie,
I don't want to leave any stone unturned to solve the case with you in a polite way.
You said the following yourself:
"I have passed your feedback on to the team responsible for the tournament and they will adjust the marketing accordingly."
That's a good sign that you're admitting that the Tournament T&Cs weren't designed fairly and are misleading and predatory. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any corresponding adjustment so far.
The tournament description also speaks for it:
"Your ticket to high society has finally arrived. Reach the pinnacle of luxury by entering the Wealth Masters tournament. Enjoy a life of prosperity, mingle with the richest people in the world and gamble a little, that could help you amass a fortune that dwarfs all others.
Wager big in the tournament games and win a share of the glittering €/$16,000 prize pool. Are you ready to be richer than you ever imagined?"
All of this has already been confirmed to you by Askgamblers and CasinoGuru.
As I have already mentioned, I would like to make every effort to resolve this case amicably.
I want to make you a suggestion that you and I can live with.
They credit me with my 3600 euros with a wagering requirement of X5 (18,000) and a maximum payout of 20,000
Euro. So you still have a high chance that I lose my money.
Under the circumstances, this solution would be acceptable to me and I think Goldwin would too.
I think that simply because I have helped you in the future (if you adjust this) to avoid encountering this problem, you should be goodwill.
I ask you for a quick answer.
Best regards
justuskab
Hello Eugenie,
I now had to realize that you have finally adjusted the tournament terms and conditions, even if they are not particularly fair, but at least many times better than you tried to sell me.
I would like to share your customizations here:
- Any player who does not claim the prize within 7 (seven) days of the prize being announced will forfeit the prize. (So I didn't say anything about a requirement, but that the price would be credited the next day, which of course didn't happen)
- The prizes have a wagering requirement of 20x and a maximum withdrawal limit of 5x the prize.
(So there was nothing about it for me at all, it was only communicated in the chat 50X and maximum
payout of 100 euros)
Unfortunately wagering at 20x is still very unfair, especially when you get the first places.
If, as in my case, you have to wager 3,600 euros x20, it means that I have to make spins for 180,000 euros and this is almost impossible with 3,600 euros. You had to have such luck that I've never had in my life, although I've had higher wins many times, you have to win continuously for days to wager.
In addition, the same topic comes into play again, that it is even better to get the last place, because then you have a much higher chance of paying something out. With a tournament prize of 100 euros, I only have to wager 2000 euros and can pay out 500 euros, which is quite realistic. Turning over 180,000 euros and possibly paying out 18,000 euros with the 3600 euro tournament prize is 99.99999% impossible.
Nevertheless, I have to commend you that your casino is on the right track thanks to my help. Now at least the players know that you are playing for a bonus in tournaments.
As you can see I haven't quit your casino and still made deposits since 02/01/2023 because I still had hope that you would improve and you have already taken the small step in that direction.
I think, as already mentioned, your casino should show me goodwill and close the case on a positive note. Maybe even Askgamblers can work on the case again for the better and I could even delete my bad rating on Trustpilot and give it a correspondingly positive rating if your casino shows understanding.
At the bottom of your main page it says:
" GoldWin is a brand new product brought to you by seasoned gaming enthusiasts who are obsessed with creating the best online casino experience there is. This may sound like a boring statement to be made by a new online casino Casino is coming, but we will stand behind it every step of the way From an exclusive selection of providers and products to the best online casino real money games, the Goldwin revolution gives enough ammunition to turn your classic sessions into the best online casino - to transform the experience of the present."
Best regards
justuskab
Dear justuskab,
I apologize for the delay, but we have been discussing this case both with the casino and internally at our weekly meeting. I appreciate your frustration at this point, but would kindly ask that you refrain from sending the same e-mail multiple times.
Dear Goldwin Casino,
We have discussed the matter further internally and agree that the proposal of 20x wagering and max cashout of EUR 18,000 is not an acceptable offer as a resolution.
Therefore, I would like to ask for your response regarding the player's proposal of being granted the amount of EUR 3600 with 5x wagering and a max cashout of EUR 20,000 in this case.
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
Thank you for your reply!
Kindly note that the regulator has also passed judgement on this case and, after analysing the evidence provided by the player and the casino, has ruled in favor of the casino.
As we have changed the conditions of the new tournaments, with a lower wagering requirement (20x) and higher cash out limit (5x the awarded prize), as a sign of good faith we offered to award the prize with these new conditions to this player as well. Under this new conditions the player would get the prize with a 60% lower wagering requirement and 17900% higher cash out limit then the conditions the player acknowledged when joining that tournament.
Unfortunately we aren't able to offer alternative conditions as this wouldn't be fair to the other players in the casino, and our commitment is towards creating an equitable environment for all players.
With regards,
Eugenié Lacroix
Hello Eugenie,
through numerous posts on the Internet it is known that the supervisory authority of Curacao Gaming does not have a good reputation, this is also known to all rating portals and is mentioned again and again. This supervisory authority almost always decides exclusively in favor of the casino. I have since appealed to this "regulator" and don't think I'll get any other response.
I now regret lodging a complaint there because you are now using this as an "argument" to justify clear injustice.
I believe that through the review portals, players should not be advised to submit complaints to Curacao Gaming, as the casinos will then use these "decisions" to attempt to use the obvious intent (unfairness, misleading, cheating, delaying tactics, bonus as justification so as not to have to pay out, etc.).
Eugenie, you say:
"Unfortunately we are unable to offer alternative terms as it would not be fair to the other players in the casino and our commitment is to creating an equitable environment for all players."
This may sound logical at first glance, but it does not correspond to reality. Alone the 20x wagering is unfair to all players, especially the higher ranked players because the higher your rank the less likely you are to cash out at all. So at first glance your conditions are better, but in the end this means for players that the same as then with 50x and a maximum payout of 100 euros. Because in both cases you don't create a real payout. Thus, the supposedly good condition that the max. payout can be paid out 5x the tournament prize does not mean that your casino wanted to show itself from a good side, but because your casino is aware that in 99.999% almost nobody creates the 20x turnover to complete and even if, then only those who have reached the last places and the profit will not be that high.
Explanation:
Example: If you used to have 100x wagering requirements and max cashout of 50 euros and then changed to 50x wagering requirements and max cashout 500 euros, it just means that you made big 'shit' into medium 'shit' and you can do not call this a "sign of our good faith"
They also ONLY changed the earlier "alleged" tournament conditions of 50x and max. payout of 100 euros and did not publish them because this would be immediately recognized by the players as a "rip-off" and the real purpose of the tournament would be to earn more money from players failed with that and that's why you published this in a different, less recognizable way, but the result is the same (no money in the end).
This may not yet be apparent to every player, but players will experience this in the future.
Eugenie, one thing I don't understand is your management people, they really think that all your players are STUPID and don't see your intentions or don't understand your people that you can generate more revenue for the casino if you make the casino fair and do not make any dubious conditions or use delay tactics with payouts???
The only good thing about your customization is that it is now recognizable that it is a bonus.
Only fair solution for tournament prizes would be that the win is paid out as cash or at least treated like the deposit and has to be wagered 1x before cashing out with no max cash out although the 5x max cash out would still be fine.
I offered you to wager 5x and max payout of 20,000 euros (18,000 euros so 5x would still be acceptable) as this will most likely never be the case because I thought you were aware that 5x was at 3600 euros is also very difficult to implement and I can be happy that if I do implement it, something will remain in the end. You should have experienced players on your team for advice so that correct decisions are made.
As I've already shared with you, I think you should show some goodwill to me, since I've helped you become a little fairer with my time (it'll make you more money, guaranteed), at least the appearance of fairness has been created. I have also since posted on Trustpilot that you have improved and your ranking has increased by 0.1 point and wish I could give your ranking a well deserved boost. I can also take back my good rating and publish the new findings regarding your new tournament terms and conditions if you continue to insult our intellect with insane answers.
Best regards
justuskab
eugenie,
I would like to add something to your statement:
"Unfortunately we are unable to offer alternative terms as it would not be fair to the other players in the casino and our commitment is to creating an equitable environment for all players."
If I get a "separate" condition from you, it's more than fair to other players.
Thanks to ME, "all" players now "benefit" from new "better" conditions and that's why no player will certainly object to me if I get better conditions once.
Hello Eugenie,
I have thought about it again and would like this matter to come to a positive end even faster and I have an even better suggestion for you.
They credit me with my 3,600 euros and I have to wager 1x and can withdraw a maximum of 3,000 euros .
So, as announced, you don't have to pay me 18,000 euros for a maximum payout of 5x but only 3,000 euros and in addition I make correspondingly fewer money transactions and can't get any further in your reward system for better advantages and I voluntarily accept the point that it's unfair to me is that I can pay out less than the other players. The turnover is also fair, because I have to turn over less, I can also pay out less.
In summary, I can pay less than my prize and you have to pay me €15,000 less if I win €18,000.
I think there's nothing wrong with my second offer and you immediately agree and we can close the case.
Best regards
justuskab
Hello Adam,
I had brief email contact with Eugenie last Friday evening.
Point of view from the email was that Goldwin sees no point in closing my case correctly,
or to accept my suggestion because your rating at CasinoGuru is deteriorating anyway, before
Background that the fraudulent intentions are obvious.
Adam my request to you: please contact the eugenie and discuss what the goldwin is in my case
must do in order not to worsen his rating or, like Goldwin, possibly even improve his rating
can. Only in this case is it possible for me to be billed fairly.
I sincerely ask you to comply with my request, otherwise I will definitely get nothing.
Best regards
justuskab
Dear justuskab,
As mentioned, we entirely disagree with the casino in this case and believe you should have been paid the prize in full.
Unfortunately, it seems that the casino will not change its position regarding this, and is not willing to accept your proposals to resolve the situation. Consequently, there is nothing further that we can achieve in pursuing this case.
The casino has offered you EUR 3600 with 20x wagering and a max cashout of 5x the bonus. We do not believe this to be a fair offer by any means, but as the licensing authority has ruled in favor of the casino it may be the only offer on the table. If you confirm once more that you do not wish to accept this as an acceptable resolution, we will close this complaint as 'unresolved'.
Kind regards,
Adam
Hello Adam,
Since I have no choice, I have just agreed to Goldwin that I agree to your "offer" (20x5x=99.999%_0.00 euros) and unfortunately have not yet received an answer.
Best regards
justuskab
Hello Levon & Adam,
As per the player's confirmation of accepting our offer, the amount has been credited to his casino account balance:
EUR 3600 with a wagering requirement of 20x (EUR 72000) and a maximum cash out of 5x the awarded prize (EUR 18000).
Please note that the General Bonus Terms and Conditions apply - https://goldwin.com/terms-and-conditions .
With regards,
Eugénie Lacroix
Hello Adam,
I managed to get a payout of 3000 euros.
Please don't close the case until Goldwin has transferred my 3,000.
I promise I'll get back to you as soon as Goldwin pays my money so the case can be closed for good.
Best regards
justuskab
Hello justuskab,
Thank you for the update, we will keep the complaint open until you confirm receipt of payment.
Kind regards,
Adam
Dear Adam,
the money was paid out today, unfortunately not without any problems.
So you can close this case so I can open the new case against Goldwin because that
arbitrary action by Goldwin seems to have no end in sight.
Thank you very much and maybe you are the one who will try me next time
will help.
Best regards
justus
Hello justuskab,
Thank you for your response, I am sorry to hear that you have experienced further issues but glad to hear that you have received the payment.
I will now mark the complaint as 'resolved' in our system.
Thank you for your cooperation, and please do not hesitate to contact our Complaint Resolution Center if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future. We are here to help.
Best regards,
Adam
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