Cloudbet Casino - Player’s requesting a full deposit refund.

I am a gambling addict and during a tough period i falled back into gambling - CloudBet allowed me as a 23 year old kid with no fixed income to lose 15364 $ USD without conducting any due diligence, KYC or verification of income when depositing and gambling these high amounts.

Not only the Casino does not comply with the law, they also lie about it - Please see screenshot "CloudBet-chat.png", where they confirm that they do conduct due diligence when deposits reach 3000 USD as the law tells (As written on screenshot "cdd.png").

Refering to Curacao eGaming's terms in relation to gambling addiction they write the following:

-The Operator shall collaborate with partners in the Gaming Industry in its efforts to minimize gaming addiction.

-The Operator shall at any time be entitled to withhold services from the End User by shall mean of Suspension of the Account or otherwise, whenever it finds indications of irregular behaviour by the End User such as, however not limited to compulsory behavior, chasing losses, erratic gambling patterns, and, or, abnormal long periods of sustained game play.

-The Operator is required, the Ordinance notwithstanding, to at all times comply with all Curaçao local as well as international rules and regulations.

All things can be read on their website: https://www.curacao-egaming.com/ceg-academy/self-study-chapter-b/responsible-gaming-self-exclusion-and-code-of-conduct

No only does CloudBet not comply with local laws, they also break the rules of Curacao eGaming in relation to minimizing gaming addiction, and monitor irregular behavior such as compulsory behavior, chasing losses and erratic gambling patterns.

When depositing thausands of US dollars on each deposit and keep chasing losses, the Casino must be set accountable for their behavior and break of laws - Who are there to be protect gambling addicts if the Casinos does not?

I was also in contact with Casino operator - So we have in written proof that they write as quote "The amount of your deposits will not fall into these cases, i'm afraid therefore we are not held accountable for your gameplay", if this is their excuse and i was allowed to deposit and lose 15364 $ USD and the law requires them to after 3000 $ USD, i can only see that this excuse and explenation from the casino is illegal and a lie from their side.

Dear qwrath,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I hope I understand correctly that you request a full deposit refund as the casino allowed you to deposit a large amount of money without checking your source of income. Could you please advise if you have ever informed the casino or suggested that you could have a gambling problem?

I have checked the Responsible Gambling section on the website, and this is what I found (here):

„Self Exclusion

By requesting a period of self-exclusion you agree to follow the below terms and conditions, which will be in effect from the time that CS implements the chosen period of self-exclusion.

Self-exclusion requests greater than 24 hours should be made via the Live Chat option on site.

You may self-exclude for the following periods of time:

24 hour cool off - To be completed on-site

1 week

1 month

6 months

1 year

Permanently

Once you have self-excluded you will not be able to access your account or withdraw during this period.

If you have excluded your account whilst you have pending bets on your account, bets placed will remain valid and settle according to official results. Once the period of self exclusion has lapsed you may withdraw winnings from qualifying bets. Cloudbet does not cancel or void any bets placed before a self exclusion has been affected.

Once you have self-excluded you will not be able to change or alter the period for a shorter length of time or have your self-exclusion cancelled until the period that you selected for self-exclusion has passed.

Please contact our customer services team if you wish to extend your self-exclusion period.

Once your self exclusion period has passed your account will automatically reopen.

By self-excluding you agree that:

You will not create another account during this period.

You will not deposit, or attempt to deposit funds into a Cloudbet account. 

You will not wager on this website during this period.

This is a voluntary act initiated by yourself, and Halcyon Super Holdings will not be liable for any losses you may incur during the period of self-exclusion in any form."

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hi Petronela, my request is for a refund of the deposits, howeverbas I understand the law only requires the casino to conduct due diligence after deposits of 3000$ USD is made by the player, so I am open to let the first 3000$ be for the Casino to keep, but the amounts after this is obtained illegally, because the casino never conducted and kind of due diligence - As mentioned above also all the signs of enormous deposits, chasing losses etc.

I did reach out to the casino and mentioned my addiction after all the losses, and I got my account closed forever. A thing to mention is that this is not over many months, all these deposits is within a shorter amount of time, where no normal people ever could afford to deposit and loss over 15000$ with taking loans and making deposits after deposits for chasing losses. Here as sent to you screenshot of, I asked regarding they never conducted any due diligence and ignore all signs of addiction with these hugh amounts, and requested a refund. Then the Casino operators only excuse is as mentioned above: "The amount of your deposits will not fall into these cases, i'm afraid therefore we are not held accountable for your gameplay" - so their only excuse do not being held afraid is that the amount is not fall under such case - but if deposits and losses of more than 15000$, should as I understand fall under such cases, and there the only explanation for the Casino not the be helt responsible is a lie.

Thanks for your assistance, I really appreciate it and wish you a good day.

Since Cloudbet allowed these enormous amounts without conducted any due diligence, kyc, source of income/wealth, but CloudBet just kept allowing transaction and me getting into big dept and chasing losses - They only excuse from CloudBet as shown on the sent screenshot of email communication, is that CloudBet writes that they follow the procedures, but the amount of my deposits does not fall into these cases.

I just made a calculation of the total transactions and deposits. With total deposits of 88221,37 USDT and 33,69646954 LTC, so if we include deposits and withdrawals they allowed transactions of 168397$ US Dollars with losses of 15364 $.

No one should be allowed to deposit a total of more than 90000$ at any place without any enhanced due diligence, but not even due diligence, kyc or source of income/wealth was done by the Casino allowing me to keep depositing after depositing chasing losses.

So if 168397$ in total transactions and 88221,37 USDT+33,69646954 LTC in deposits is not within "The amount of your deposit will not fall into these cases" then i dont know what world we are living in, and when i ask Casino operator why this huge amount is not within what is required, when their own chat-supports says its 3000$, then they do not reply. There must be some kind of a system or laws, so a gambling addict cannot be allowed to deposit over 90000$ US dollars with no questions asked, no due diligence, no checks of source for the funds by the Casino operator, furthermore the required systems/checks for gambling addicts with these enormous amounts and chasing losses. Especially when the Curacao Gambling Comission clearly writes that CDD must be carried our the transactions is above the monetary qeuivalent of US$ 3,000, and when i asked CloudBets support-chat they confirmed to me that they do conduct due diligence with a maximum US$ 3,000 in deposits has been made and also earlier they write, which i have screnshot of.

I have screenshots of transaction page for documentation of the deposits.

Thank you, qwrath, for your replies. If I understand correctly, your account is blocked now. Have you saved your cashier history? I'd like to check all the deposits and withdrawals, please.

Hi, Yes my account is closed now - But I have screenshot of the transaction page with all deposit/withdrawal history, I will find it and send to you here.

Hi Petronela - I have attached screenshot of USDT transaction list. I can see that i back-then did only take screenshots of my USDT transaction list and not the LTC transaction list, however i took screenshot of both USDT and LTC wallet where i could get the precise deposited/withdrawn amounts. However i also made a bet-history screenshots where all bets are shown both LTC and USDT bets - So to show the LTC amounts, i have attached screenshots of the two latest match-history pages, as well as checking the exploer/transfers to the wallet which from LTC Explorer shows 5,318.38 USD from the value at the transfer time.

I also took a screenshot of their license page, and they are both obliged by Curacao and Montenegro license which both has rules regarding this.

I also attached screenshot of the whole reply i received from CloudBet, where as described above, they write that the only reason that they cannot be held responsible, is because the deposit amount is not within the amount when they should conduct any due diligence - But as confirmed on screenshots if the total deposits of more than 90000$ and total transactions of 168397$ is not within when a Casino should performance any due diligence, then i dont know what amount is within, and when asking Casino chat-support afterwards they inform that they perform due diligence when deposits reach 3000 USD as shown on the screenshot sent earlier, which seems like a lie from the Casino.

I have cut away the sidebar where my username also shows, as i did not know if these images became private og public, so i can also send you version with the full screen including sidebar with my username.

The total losses is 18364 $, so the amount of the dispute is 15364 $, when removing the 3000 $ that was not required to conduct due diligence. So just you have all the numbers, when you are going through the sent screenshots.

Thank you very much, qwrath, for your reply and for all the supporting evidence. I have checked everything thoroughly. From what I understood, your history of deposits and withdrawals contains 35 pages in your player’s account (I’ve seen 2 pages only). Could you please advise if you informed, during this period, the casino about your gambling addiction at least once? I agree that checking the source of income should be in place for all the players, unfortunately, this is not standard practice yet. Moreover, if you were depositing and withdrawing funds simultaneously, casino could simply assume that the funds originated from your gameplay with them. Please understand that if you didn’t mention the gambling problem not once, we are unable to help you.

Since I assume that you won’t agree with my reply, I offer help in advance with filing an official complaint with the Licensing Authority. Please let me know if you would be interested in our assistance. Looking forward to hearing from you. 

Hi, thanks for looking through my evidence - the history of deposits of withdrawals is only two pages, I think you are thinking about the bet-history pages.

So transactions of each currency has its own transaction page, since I primarily used USDT, i only have taken screenshots of transaction page with deposits and withdrawals for USDT, which is the two pages/screenshots I sent.

Furthermore after the losses I made some LTC deposits which I lost, so these deposits I don't have screenshot of since I only made screenshot of USDT transactions, therefore I attached screenshot of my latest bets (bet-history) where you can see my LTC amounts ad proof. My bet-history is many pages, so I think this is what you are thinking about.

All these transactions of 168397$ have happened in less than a week, and as you can see I deposited several times before making any withdrawals, which was already above the limit of then casino should conduct due diligence, so this assumption that I becomes from casino is not right, they should have conducted so even before allowing and withdrawals right?

It shouldn't be right that a casino can allow from a 23 year old kid, with clear signs of chasing losses and huge amounts that no one could afford, so the original amount of deposits was from loans as well as afterwards when having lost a lot, wanting to win back, depositing even more, resulting in losses of 18364 $, and the casino did nothing. It can't be within the law for an operator to allow such transactions without conducting any verification of identity, income or just simple due diligence to know the customer.

They are also obligated to report unusual transactions, and therefore their system must have known all these unusual deposit amounts resulting in them asking for KYC or verification, since my losses was from 10-13 november, so in only 3 days, due to my illness I have earlier had moments of insanity allowing me to take big loans and loss, other casino operators had requested KYC and therefore giving me a cool down before verifying my account which could take a day or so, so I have the opportunity to think the situation through, and get out of my moment of insanity, which earlier I know he resulted in that I stop depositing these high amounts. So I think the casino should take responsibility by allowing such transactions and not conducting any due diligence, not even KYC, and all the signs of unusual transactions, high amounts og keep chasing losses.

So I hope if you are able to assist with the regulator, so that the casino can learn to take responsibility, who are there to protect vulnerable players, of the casinos do absolutely nothing.

Thanks I wish you a very good day.

Especially when I have clear proof that the casino operator uses the only excuse, that the amount of deposits is not within the amount, and therefore they can not be held accountable.

So I would like to get this question answered by casino, because they clearly informs this is their primary reason, so if we can prove that more than 90000$ is actually within the amount that they should conduct due diligence, then it is clear proof that their only excuse is a lie.

Thank you very much, qwrath, for the clarification. I do apologize for misreading your deposit history.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef (jozef.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I'm doing so to get the casino to react and shed some light on the case. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hi Petronela, thank you very much for your kind assistance - I wish you a good evening.

Hi qwrath,

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

Hi Jozef - thank you very much I appreciate it.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Dear qwrath and Casino Guru,

Thanks for bringing this matter to us.

After reviewing the case history and customer correspondence I can confirm that Cloudbet acted in accordance with not just our terms of service, but the regulations set out under our license provider.

We note that the player made 6 deposits and 4 withdrawals on the day of registration 10th October 2021, our risk team assessed the player account, as is standard procedure, and the customer was deemed to be not a threat.

The customer regularly deposited and placed bets on both casino and sports before withdrawing winnings made from bets placed. Once more this was not unusual customer behavior.

On the 14th of October, the customer made first contact with our support team and made an admission of problem gambling. The account was Permanently closed by our support team and information as to seeking help overcome the gambling problem was given.

Cloudbet is committed to delivering a safe and secure experience on-site, we are committed to responsible gaming and enforcing it on the platform. We're saddened to hear that the customer, at that time, had a problem gambling experience, we sincerely hope that qwrath has since overcome this.

In conclusion, Cloudbet did not find any irregularities in the player gameplay or betting behaviors. The action to permanently close the account was the correct action taken by our support staff.

Kind regards

Paul,

Customer Support Manager

Dear all,

Please look at these huge amounts!

On the 10. October, you allowed the first six deposits:

155,5 USD

4327,47 USD

1385,12 USD

76 USD

6137 USD

4976,52 USD

This is a total is 17.054,61 USD made within the first day, how can this not be deeped unusual? So you mean that regular players just deposit 17.054,61 without you conducting any due diligence, kyc, player verification or source of funds??

I know that you are obligated to report unusual transactions, but how can you do that when you do not have any single information about the customer?

So total deposits in the following days:

10. October: 17.054,61 USD

11. October: 9000 USD

12. October: 10.000 USD

13. October: 52.163,76 USD

And then plus these deposited 5000 USD in LTC also.

How can you be committed to responsible gambling and enforcing it on the platform, when you can allow deposits of more than 90.000$ US Dollars in 4 days, where you do not conduct any kind of verification and how can that in any way be okay with these huge amounts?

You inform that the only excuse it, that the deposited amount does not fall under such cases for due diligence, and therefore you cannot be held liable for it. But please Paul, if 90.000$ in deposits does not fall into such cases, please tell me what amount does fall under such cases?

I understand that cases with a customer depositing like 50€ or so, but here we have deposits of 17.054,61 USD made in the first day in 6 transactions, emptying everything i have and taking loans, therefore the several deposits in such different amounts i could get my hands on in any way.

So to me it looks unresponsible and not fair, that you just keep allowing such amounts without conducting any verification, kyc, identification or source of funds.

Dear Jozef and Cloudbet Casino,

I would like to add into evidence a support-chat from the chat-support on Cloudbet, where support-operator Hang clearly confirms that they do conduct due diligence when deposits exceeds more than 3000 USD. He even informs that the securiy team can freely ask even earlier.

This clearly indicates that the Casino has not followed their own protocol as required, and even as they promise their customers on the support-chat that they do so, they actually just lies about this and dont do so.

Just wanted to add this into evidence and proof that if the support that they conduct due diligence when deposits are above 3000 USD, the Curacao GCB refering to Section 5.2 when to conduct CDD measure informs when transactions above the monetary equivalent of US$3,000 is carryed out.

So i cannot understand how Cloudbet's only excuse can be liable when all the above evidence is available, when their only excuse is: "The amount of your deposit will not fall into these cases, i'm afraid therefore we are not held accountable for your gameplay".

Both GCB requires this, as the Control Board that supervises all Curacao gaming industry and Cloudbet them self, informs they do so too - Nothing was ever done in my case by Cloudbet, even with these huge amounts.

So i just wanted to add this information together with my above statement to this dispute.

Thank you for sharing all the information. I am extending the timer by 7 days because of further evaluation of the case.

Dear qwrath,

After long evaluation of the case, we managed to reach a conclusion. I am very sorry, but we believe you are not entitled to receive a refund. Be aware that the casino team acted completely according to their T&Cs, I can confirm based on the all information provided that there has not been anything that should clearly suggest your gambling difficulties. The methods how casinos detect problem gamblers differs by the brand, and it is not something exact. The most important thing you can do is to inform the casino support about the gambling problem, and then they are obligated to close your account as soon as possible.

Regarding the terms of regulator you were referring to, as far as I know they are not mandatory, but optional. You accepted the casino T&Cs, about the interpretation and enforcement of the regulator's policies, I highly recommend contacting the licensing authority directly. I will gladly help you out with it, you can reach me at my email address below.

Concluding the information above, I am forced to reject this case.

Best regards, Jozef

jozef.k@casino.guru