Betcoin.ag Casino - Player's winnings are deducted after casino mistake.

Hi,

My complaint is wit betcoin.ag my username is neo 6

Betcoin revealed they accidentally put extra funds in my account. I was not aware of this and placed a wager, that wager did lose. however when i redeposited and won my bet they deducted funds from my winning balance and told me I would be banned for what I did. the fact is I didn't do anything but use the platform. I was told if the wager was a winner or loser it would of been voided regardless. So im wondering if they made a mistake and than let me know it was going to be voided regardless how are they than able to deduct funds from something the deem voided. Usually they would just void the wager and the problem is solved not sure why they said I owe them and than deducted funds when the initial error was deemed voided. Thank you for your help

Dear neo6,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your negative experience with Betcoin.ag Casino.

Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can better understand the situation. 

• To your knowledge, you've been playing with your real money deposit?
• Could you please share a screenshot or a chat transcript regarding the issue of extra funds being credited to your balance?
• My email is tomas@casino.guru

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Tomas

Hello all,

We will jump in here, if that's okay. There is no reason to drag this out, when the resolution is so easily determined.

See image 1 below:

The player's deposit on 23 Sep was slow to credit, so we kindly added it in advance for him. The manager credit of 0.08932761 ETH can be seen at the red arrow. The player used his balance, placing some sports wagers and then later, the deposit came through. You can see the green arrow by the deposit for this same amount of 0.08932761 ETH. Instead of informing us about the double credit, per our and everyone else's terms of service, the player placed a bet with the extra funds for 0.041569 ETH. This is reflected in the blue arrow. We were able to remove the rest of the balance of 0.04775861 (yellow arrow). This left a debt of the 0.041569 ETH on the account, for the money the player spent, which did not belong to him.

See image 2 below:

On 29 Sep, the player made another deposit (red arrow) and placed a bet, which was won. He attempted to withdraw the funds. When reviewing the withdrawal, our team member noticed that the funds were still owed and canceled the withdrawal to remove the funds (green arrows). The 0.041569 ETH which was owed was deducted (blue arrow). Once that was remove, the player was able to successfully withdraw the rest of his balance (yellow arrow).

As the player has been told, his balance is now accurate and he is free to play and withdraw normally.

Thanks for the input to Betcoin.ag Casino.

Dear neo6,

If you gambled with money that didn't belong to you, we might not argue for any winnings to be paid out.

Please let me know if there are any circumstances supporting your case, otherwise, I'll close the case as unjustified.

I emailed the info to you Thomas. Also if they put extra cash in my account those bets could just be easily voided. They literally told me regardless if it wins or losses since it was an error those wagers would be voided and that makes perfect sense. I than put new money in the system and won the cash so how than can they deduct cash from a whole new balance. That is is the issue. Even if they bet was a winner with the mistaken funds it is void!

So technically I never owed anything. So how can money be deducted. Also why wasn’t I notified by email or chat regarding this issue really strange how I get penalized for a website mistake

Also the amount is not $110 cad it’s $110 USD

Another example let’s say this was in the casino and the blackjack table paid me extra $500 they wouldn’t deduct my balance they would just void the $500 and any wins that had to do with that $500 since it was a error. Very strange to deduct someone’s balance even though no money was taken.

@Tomas, we emailed you with some information regarding this case, which contains private information. Thank you for your consideration

Betcoin please return my funds so I can move on. You took my winnings for something you even told me would be voided regardless so their absolutely no loss to your book for voided wagers. Please and thanks.

Thanks for your replies.

We'll discuss the case internally and I'll inform you about the result. Please allow me some more time for the reply.

Sounds good thanks

This entire thread has been manipulated by a scheming player. There was no "casino mistake". There was a maintenance with our depositing crediting system. We kindly credited this player manually with his deposit, with the intention of removing it once the maintenance ended, and the deposit credited through the system. The only mistake we made was to trust a player, who ended up stealing from us the first chance he got.

The player spent our manual credit on losing bets. When the actual deposit credited, he noticed before we could remove it, and used our money to place a bet. Had the bet won, the obvious decision would be to void the winnings and remove the original bet amount, which belonged to us. But the bet lost.

As an industry, we cannot say that the funds used to place a bet with stolen money are only removed if the bet wins. That gives the player a no risk situation, where he knows if he loses the bet, there is no consequence. When a player loses a bet, he loses that money. If the money he placed the bet with is our money, he owes us that money.

If we are unable to remove the stolen funds from a player account, after he places a bet with them and loses, it puts him in a no-risk situation. He cannot lose, because the money he placed the bet with was not his. He can only win, if the bet wins and we don't notice that it was placed with stolen funds. That is why a similar rule to ours exists on every casino/sportsbook.

You literally just proved my whole point and please be respectful I did not steal anything. You just said if it won it would be voided if it loses I have no risk. But the proof is in your own words if it wins or loses there is no loss to anyone. This situation was unfortunate I just want fair play for my winnings. I will not be replying anymore and kindly waiting for our friend Thomas to finalize their decision take care.

@neo6 It is fortunate you will not be responding any more, because you are embarrassing yourself. If you wanted respect, you could have earned it, by taking our temporary credit and then notifying us when the deposit came through, instead of blatantly stealing it and trying to freeroll us.

You state that whether the bet wins or loses, there is not cost to anyone, but you are wrong. There is no cost to you. But if it loses, there is a cost to us, as we are responsible for compensating our odds provider for your loss. If it wins, there is a cost to us, as we may not notice that you stole the money to place the bet with. Regardless, there is a cost to us and no cost to you. That is what you were banking on when you took money that you knew did not belong to you and tried to turn it into a profit for yourself.

If you wanted "fair play" you could have not tried to steal from us. Then everything would have been perfectly normal. Your next deposit would have been treated normally and you would have collected the winnings from any future bets. Instead, a portion of the next deposit had to cover what you stole from us. You should be ashamed of yourself for stealing from a legitimate business and then trying to make it seem like you are owed money. There is not a single legitimate gambler or person in the gambling industry who thinks that you can steal money, place a bet with it, and then not have to pay that money back. While we originally attempted to give you a second chance and move on amicably, you have proven that you are incapable of earning our trust back. You are permanently banned from Betcoin and all associated properties for blatant theft, without remorse or attempt to change your behavior.

Dude have some decency your taking this way to personal.

1. every sportsbook has the power to void bets
2. your own words "if it won we would of voided it"
3. if it could be voided if it won it could be voided period there is no discussion
4. please stop the back and forth let the litigator make his decision without you ranting
5. i dont wanna use your platform that’s why I'm here making a complaint you guys are acting like the mob. This is industry standard stuff in North America not sure if your from the uk but we follow different rules here

In your own words "I will not be replying anymore". You are the only one lying here. As we have stated from the beginning, if the bet was won, we would deduct the winnings and the bet amount. If the bet was lost, we would deduct the bet amount. Either way, you owe the money you stole. And yes, as a company that is more community than business, we take it extremely personally when one of our members breaks our trust. If you didn't want to use our platform, you wouldn't have begged us to let you stay. Also your own words: "I don’t wanna be banned."

"Had the bet won, the obvious decision would be to void the winnings and remove the original bet amount"

these are your words in the thread!!

which one is it 🤷

gotta be consistent in your wording my friend!

I wish you the best

no hard feelings on my side

let’s be respectful and just return my funds

and move on. I even said I was willing to take half but since you were such a douche bag to me I said I want all of my funds back. The way you have demonstrated yourself in this chat says everything writing on the wall.

ps. Telling a customer they stole funds it’s just plain disrespectful/ stupidity. Your system put funds in my account. The time we had discovered this we both talked about the situation you never once said I stole anything from our convo. Now since I’m complaining your using your words ignorantly and just saying bullshit.

you even personally bet me the amount owed that I wouldn’t get it back but guess what I will and you will have to be a man and pay me our personal bet. You took this way to personal and I don’t like the way you treat customers.

Voiding the winnings and deducting the winnings are the same thing. Either way, you would receive $0 of the money you tried to steal. Just like when you steal money and lose the bet, your account balance becomes negative until we can remove the stolen money from your next deposit. No, you cannot have half of the money you stole from us. We don't award bonuses to abusive players.

So let me get this straight if your company somehow makes a mistake and you don’t inform your clients or resolve the issue so it doesn’t affect your clients. You not only void the winnings you also deduct their balance and deduct them for owed money due to your website glitch……..

hahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 0 out of 10 this is digusting predator behavior seems like im speaking to a child omg litigator im speechless i think I’ve shown you what you gotta see to make the clear decision thank you.

I would kindly ask both parties to be civil in the complaint thread. I appreciate your patience in this matter.

Dear neo6,

Was the debt accrued due to your extra balance deduction visible when you made a new deposit on September 29th?

Were your bets finalized when the extra money was credited to your balance on September 23rd?

Will do Tomas my apologies. Nothing was visible my 1pm games ended I had 1 leg left. When I noticed I was losing I deposited again so that whole theory saying I stole is just stupidity and seems planned because why did I load with no issue for a new bet I then won my bet around 7-9pm. When I tried to withdraw I was informed they were taking some of my funds. We then had a discussion which I showed you through email. I think this whole thing happened due to a problem in their system when I deposited. I meant no harm I actually work in the industry as well so I know 1000% in this situation the book doesn’t lose any funds. At my company we would usually just void it out due to it being a company mishap and no fault to the player. Since we couldn’t come to an agreement I decided to message you for help.

Regardless of whether or not there is a cost to us for this player's lost bet (there is), there is certainly a cost to the player for a lost bet. We can't just pretend it didn't happen.

A decision in his favor would grant people the right to place bets with the casino's money any opportunity they get, and as long as they lose, they are good. Think about how often a player will receive an extra credit for whatever reason (ie.. human error, system error, payout error, etc..) It probably happens to every casino at least multiple times a week. Are we to assume that when that error happens, the player is allowed to spend that money, so long as the bet loses? Of course not.

Additionally, it doesn't matter as far as the resolution, but in this case, there was no error on our end. We credited the player's deposit early as a courtesy, knowing that we needed to remove the funds once the maintenance ended and the deposit credited on it's own. He just beat us to it and spent the money before we could remove what was owed. Win or lose, the player owes us the money that was spent. There is no possible reason he can just lose the bet, and then think we are even.

Maybe get a better platform with better tech and maybe this wouldn’t have happened. Like I said before any normal sports betting’s company would just simply void the bet I am not going back and forth with you on the topic that would be the usual practise by most North American books. Hopefully you guys could make less errors and stop blaming customers for things that could be easily fixed.

The real question is why didn’t you just email me and notify me. Conflict resolution would have been to email me and notify me right away and reverse the added funds and void the wager instead you guys waited 4-5 days and didn’t say anything so we could have arranged a resolution. Instead nothing was said until I won and you took my winning that doesn’t really look good at all

Thanks for your patience.

After internal discussion, we reached a decision where we agreed with the casino's conclusions to consider the played money as a debt.

The circumstances point to the fact the player was aware the money didn't belong to him at the time of playing since his balance was refilled in full by the same amount from zero. Due to the nature of how the casino conducts business, he shouldn't have placed any extra bet with the money that didn't belong to him. Ultimately we found the player responsible for his actions in this situation and consider the deduction of the 110 USD as justified.

Dear neo6,

I apologize for the disappointing result of the complaint. I hope you won't encounter such an issue in the future. Although the casino didn't inform you perfectly, we agree the money you spent constitutes costs for the casino, and there is only a low chance your placing a bet was accidental.

Consequently, we are closing the complaint in the casino's favor.

Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into issues with any online casino in the future.