Betonic Casino - Player’s bonus winnings were voided.

Ich hatte am 24.08.22 eine Auszahlung von 1700 € beantragt. Zuvor hatte ich mehrmals meinen Gewinn storniert und mit viel Glück weitergewonnen. Am 28.08. habe ich mich eingeloggt und mit Entsetzen festgestell das mein Geld weg war. Auszahlung wurde storniert. Ohne Begründung oder Information!!! Daraufhin habe ich im Chat nachgefragt aber dort konnte man mir auch keine genaue Auskunft geben: Verstoß gegen Bonusregeln.Daraufhin habe ich folgende Mail geschrieben:

Bitte weisen Sie mir meinen Verstoß gegen die Bonusregeln nach. Ich möchte den Nachweis das ich während eines aktiven Bonus gegen die Regeln verstoßen habe. Wenn Sie das nicht liefern , dann ist dieses eine Diebstahl und ich werde das zur Anzeige bringen!!!!!!

Ich habe nie einen Nachweis bekommen. Im Account kann man es auch nicht selber prüfen.

Jetzt wurde mein Account gesperrt, ich kann mich nicht mehr einloggen.

Dear Roswitha74,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and forwarding all the relevant communication. I’m sorry to hear about the issue and understand your frustration. I carefully checked the Bonus Terms on the website, and this is what I found (here):

„10. Restricted Gameplay:

- Placing bets with minimal or no risk

- Wagering made using the Gamble Feature on Slot games 

- Placing bets of amounts higher than 10 €/$/£ (or equivalent to € in other currency) or 5% of the given bonus, whichever is lower."

We would like to see casinos implementing systems that would prevent players from placing higher than allowed bets, but, unfortunately, this is not standard practice yet. However, we believe that each case should be evaluated individually.

Please do not hesitate to forward your game history in Excel format to petronela.k@casino.guru if you feel that you’ve been accused mistakenly. How much were your last active deposit and rewarded bonus, please?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hallo Petronela,

vielen Dank das Sie sich darum kümmern wollen. Ich hoffe das Sie mir wie schon oft ,helfen können.

Ich weiß mir keinen Rat meh.

Danke.

Roswitha

Hallo Petronela,

meine Einzahlungen waren immer 50 € und der Bonus 100%. Leider kann ich Ihnen den Spielverlauf nicht schicken. Ich kann mich nicht mehr einloggen. Ich habe aber immer mit 2€ oder 2,50 € bei Cilli Pop gespielt.

Mir wurde dieser Verstoß auch nie nachgewiesen. Mein höchster Einsatz war wohl mal 3 €, aber ichweiß nicht ob das während eines aktiven Bonus war.Das wurde mir auch nicht nachgewiesen.

Roswitha

Thank you very much, Roswitha74, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hi Roswitha,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. Let me contact the casino and I will do my best to help. I would like to invite Betonic Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Peter and Roswitha, 

We investigated the case and found the following: 

The player breached the bonus Terms and Conditions. The T&C state:  

"Placing bets of amounts higher than 10 €/$/£ (or equivalent to € in other currency) or 5% of the given bonus, whichever is lower." 

Full T&C can be found here: https://betonic.com/promotions/welcome  

The player used BTONIC300 bonus (50 EUR). Considering the T&C the max allowed bet stake is 2.50 EUR.  

The player stated: 

"But I always played for €2 or €2.50 at Cilli Pop. This violation was never proven to me either. My highest bet was probably €3, but I don't know if that was during an active bonus." 

The highest bets of 3 EUR the player is referring to were made during an active bonus on numerous occasions.  

In summary the max allowed bet, when playing with the mentioned bonus, is 2.50 EUR and the player has bet 3 EUR, therefore her winnings were voided. 

Best Regards, 

Betonic Casino Team 

Lieber Peter,

wo bleibt der Nachweis das ich 3 € während eines aktiven Bonus eingesetzt habe. Dieser Nachweis ist auch jetzt nicht erbracht!!! Wie schon mehrfach ausgeführt hatte ich mehrfach meinen Gewinn storniert und mit viel Glück weiter gewonnen. Bis heute wurde der Nachweis nicht erbracht. Immer die gleiche Antwwort!!! Leider kann ich das selber nicht kontrollieren . Deshalb bleibe ich bei meiner Forderung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Roswitha

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Betonic Casino Team,

Could you please send Roswitha's game history to my email address (peter.m@casino.guru) and mark the bonus play?

Dear Peter and Roswitha,

Please note that the requested additional evidence has been sent to Peter via email.

Kind Regards,

Betonic Casino Team

Thank you Betonic Casino team for the provided evidence. I have one question though, why is Roswitha's account blocked?

Dear Roswitha,

The evidence sent by the casino suggests that there were several €3 bets made during play on 22.8.2022 between 12:32:17 - 14:02:18. I don't see, however, if you played with a bonus, the "Money type" says "Virtual". Since it's your game history and there is no sensitive information on the screenshot, I'm posting it here.

I was asked to remove the picture from my last post by the casino rep. I will discuss the issue further by Skype.

Hallo Peter,

vielen Dank für Ihre Bemühungen. Ja auch mir wurde bis heute kein Beweis geschickt , das ich mit meinem Bonus diese 3 € gesetzt habe. Das geht jetzt schon mehrere Wochen, aber mein Geld ist weg.Es ist im höchsten Maße unseriös. Ich bleibe bei meiner Forderung!!!

Danke Peter.

Hi Roswitha,

I just had a call with the casino reps. They are now trying to find out why your account is blocked and they should get back to me with the evidence. I will let you know as soon as I receive it.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Hallo Peter,

es ist schon sehr merkwürdig das keine Antwort vom Casino kommt. Den Beweis gibt es sicher nicht, denn sonst hätte das Casino schon geantwortet. Man hat meinen Gewinn von 1700 € einfach storniert. Das kann man doch nur als unseriös oder sogar als kriminell einstufen. Dieses Casino gehört auf die schwarze Liste oder sogar geschlossen. Ich bin sicher nicht die Einzige die geprellt wurde. Na warten wir noch ab, ob sich doch noch alles zum Guten wendet.

Vielen Dank erstmal Peter.

Hi Roswitha,

I've sent you an email. Please let me know your thoughts and reply to the email.

Hallo Peter,

ich habe Ihnen geantwortet.

Danke.

Thank you, Roswitha for your emails.

Dear Betonic Casino team,

I would like to ask you for one more thing - Roswitha's bonus log. We need to see when exactly the bonus was activated and when it was finished.

Hi Peter,

The bonus was activated on 22 August 2022; 09:07:40 and finished on 22 August 2022, 15:29:40

Kind Regards,

Betonic Casino Team

Thank you Betonic Casino Team.

Dear Roswitha,

Does this sound right to you? Could you please double-check this in your account?

Hallo Peter,

ich habe Ihnen meine Meinung mitgeteilt.

Herzliche Grüße

Roswitha

Thank you, Roswitha for your emails.

Dear Betonic Casino Team,

I would like to ask you for one last thing - the player's bonus log.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hi Roswitha,

We received some additional evidence suggesting that the bonus was converted at 15:29 on 22.8.2022. However, the format of the evidence isn't ideal. It's a difficult decision since we have no evidence suggesting that you played without a bonus and on the other hand we have some evidence suggesting that you played with a bonus when the overbets took place. We will discuss it internally and I will get back to you tomorrow.

Hi all,

Sorry for the late reply. The complaint got a bit too complicated because the evidence wasn't completely clear. I will sum up the information we managed to get from the provided evidence.

1. Roswitha took the 100% bonus (fourth deposit bonus, code: BETONIC300) and deposited €50
2. The wagering requirement for the bonus is 25*bonus + deposit (25*(€50+€50)) = €2500
3. The casino claims that the bonus was awarded at 9:07 and was converted into real money at 15:29
4. After calculating the bets in the game history, we found out that the wagering requirement was met at 13:45
5. The aforementioned overbets that Roswitha made winnings from took place between 13:58 and 14:08, which is, after the wagering requirements were finished
6. There were two more overbets at 12:32 but these can be considered irrelevant since she didn't win anything

Dear Betonic Casino Team,

My question is, why wasn't the bonus money automatically turned into real money when the wagering was finished at 13:45?

Hi Roswitha,

The casino rep asked me for more time but promised to reply soon. I can imagine how frustrating this must be for you but I'm still hoping for a positive result.

Dear Peter,  

Your summary and calculations are correct for the current iteration of the bonus rules.   

During the time the player played the wagering requirement for the bonus was 35x not 25x. We are aware that if you check the website right now (as you have done) it says 25x – this is the case, because the wagering requirement was changed on the 13th of October 2022. 

All the customer’s gameplay was before we applied the changes including the bonus activation, meaning that indeed the wagering for her was 35X at the time of the activation. Please note that we reserve the right to change the bonus: 

 "8.11. All promotions are subject to change at any time. Betonic reserves the right to change, cancel or refuse bonus at its own discretion." 

Please not that it is the player’s responsibility to check the T&C is case of any changes: 

"1.3. The customer holds all responsibility to periodically check and update himself with the terms and conditions. Betonic advises all customers to keep themselves informed as frequently as possible. All bets will be recorded according to the time they are placed and will be subject to the relevant version of the terms and conditions agreement." 

Considering that during the time Roswitha74 played with the bonus the wagering requirement was 35x, your calculations are invalid and she still breached the Terms and Conditions.  

Since there is a direct breach of the T&C (which a player is required to read and accept, before creating an account), the disputed amount cannot be returned.  

This remains our final position, we hope it will clear the whole situation.  

Best Regards, 

Betonic Casino Team

Thank you Betonic Casino Team for the clarification. If the wagering was 35x, your argument makes sense.

Dear Roswitha,

I made another calculation and since the wagering requirement was 35x(B+D) at the time of wagering, I'm afraid the overbets were made while the bonus was still active. Unfortunately, I won't be able to help you with this one.

Lieber Peter,

vielen Dank für die Bemühungen. Leider waren sie nicht von Erfolg gekrönt. Ich werde dieses Casino trotzdem meiden und würde das auch anderen Spielern empfehlen.

Nochmals vielen Dank. Auf Sie und Ihr Team ist immer Verlass.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Roswitha

Hi Roswitha,

I'm sorry it didn't work out this time. Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. Don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Best regards,

Peter