The player from Germany requested a withdrawal of his winnings. However, the casino refuses to pay him due to breaching the Bonus Terms and Conditions. After a thorough investigation, we ended up rejecting the complaint as the bonus rules were indeed broken.
Sultanbet Casino - Player’s winnings were voided.
Amount: €8,000
Sultanbet Casino
Safety Index:Above averageSafety Index
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7.4
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Case closed
Our verdict
Unjustified complaint
REJECTED
Case summary
9 months ago
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1 year ago
I Deposited 300 Euro and won 8.000.
They are refusing to pay out my winning because in their Terms and Conditions are some extremely unfair statements like this:
"Hinweis: Alle Gewinne, die vor Ablauf des Reload-Bonus (Einzahlungsbonus) erzielt wurden, können durch Stornierung des Bonus ausgezahlt werden. Der maximale ausgezahlte Gewinn beträgt jedoch das Zweifache (2x) des ursprünglichen Einzahlungsbetrags. Wenn die Gewinne aus der Ersteinzahlung erzielt werden, beträgt der maximale Auszahlungsbetrag das Zweifache (2x) der Ersteinzahlung. Jeder Betrag, der diese Anforderung übersteigt, wird vom Guthaben des Kunden abgezogen."
If im honest i dont know if this can be possible. In my eyes and a normal defined Non Sticky Bonus is determined as followed: " If you win inside your own money you can keep the winnings." aswell as like this "On the other hand, if a casino offers a non-sticky bonus, this indicates that a player can withdraw the initial deposit as well as any winnings made from this deposit, without being required to fulfil any wagering requirement. This is a major benefit of playing at casinos that offer non-sticky bonuses."
How in the world can it be legal that i can only cashout 2x of my deposit ? This is completely ridiculous and in my eyes is in no way fair.
I need your help regarding this.
I was technically not playing with any bonus money. I did not hit the bonus in any way. I was completely playing with my own money the whole time and didnt touch the bonus money in any way.
How can it be legal to put a max cashout on raw money ? How?
Please someone explain this to me?
And please explain to me how a Casino with this Terms and Conditions is rated with a 7 ????
Please help...
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1 year ago
Dear Saint90,
Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I am sorry to hear about your problem with Sultanbet Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few questions so I can understand the situation completely. Have you made any successful withdrawals before? Could you please confirm that you have passed the KYC verification?
Have you activated a deposit bonus and canceled it before fulfilling the wagering requirements? I found the rule that you submitted here in the General Terms and Conditions of Bonuses.
I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.
Best regards,
Veronika
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1 year ago
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I have not yet made a successful withdrawal at this casino.
My KYC has been checked and confirmed.
I activated and canceled the deposit bonus.
There were no wagering requirements in this regard, since I CANCELED the bonus, which should actually legally mean that all associated terms and conditions should be deleted and no longer apply.
I made a profit within MY deposited 300 euros, then canceled the bonus and then submitted the amount of 1,800 euros as a withdrawal.
In my opinion, with this requested withdrawal, all remaining bonus terms and conditions are also overridden and all winnings made afterwards are legal on my part.
Therefore, it cannot be that the casino simply does not accept the later payouts of 4,500 and 2,800 euros and consider them void.
As you can see from the screenshots, the other payouts were initiated after the actual €1,800 payout. So how can it be that even these are being removed from my balance??
This makes absolutely no sense and can in no way be legal.
I played here with my own money and not the casino's money and my money is still being cashed out twice? And then the same terms and conditions will be applied to any subsequent winnings after the first payout? There must be a mistake here somewhere, or the casino is just trying to steal from me.
Honestly, that doesn't make any sense at all!
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1 year ago
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And I would like to refer again to the site's own terms and conditions:
" Note: All winnings made before the reload bonus (deposit bonus) expires can be withdrawn by canceling the bonus. However, the maximum withdrawn win is twice (2x) the original deposit amount. If the winnings are obtained from the first deposit , the maximum withdrawal amount is twice (2x) the initial deposit. Any amount exceeding this requirement will be deducted from the customer's balance."
Any winnings made before the Reload Bonus expired.
Particular attention should be paid to the statement "Before expiry" . No bonus has expired for me , so these terms do not apply and the entire balance should therefore be available for withdrawal.
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1 year ago
Have you played with the bonus before you canceled it? Or have you activated the bonus and de-activated it immediately without any gameplay?
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1 year ago
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As I said, I activated the bonus. Played with my money.
So I never played with the actual bonus money because I never reached it.
After activating the bonus I had a balance of 623 euros. I just checked my game history. I played up to 599 euros before I started winning. So I never got under 599 euros before I deactivated the bonus.
323 My Balance + 300 Bonus Balance.
I played my balance down to 299 euros/dollars before I started winning. So I didn't even touch the bonus balance.
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1 year ago
Thank you very much, Saint90, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will assist you. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.
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1 year ago
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Furthermore, it should be mentioned that I made a deposit of 324 dollars. But the bonus was only $300.
As can be seen in the screenshots of my history, I also did not go below the $300 bonus granted to me.
As you can see, my first win was $599 with a starting balance of $623. 623 -24 = $599. From that point on I won and from then on I never once went under $600 before I finally canceled the bonus. Therefore, it cannot be that the Terms and Conditions apply here as I did not slip into the Bonus Terms myself in my RAW Cash, since the balance that the bonus was granted was not "touched" since I was only granted a bonus of $300 and I had $24 in perfect money not in any way attached to the bonus and played with it.
So how can it be that you yourself think that 2x max cashout will be applied to this money?
Do you understand what I mean ? If not, I can try to explain again.
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1 year ago
Hi Saint90,
I'm taking over your complaint. Let me ask you some questions to proceed with the investigation.
1. Do I understand correctly that you made the winnings while the bonus was active?
2. Was there any warning in the casino account that would inform you what would happen if you cancel the bonus?
3. Did the casino automatically credit the 2x of your deposit to your account?
4. Is there a possibility to "cancel the cancellation" of the bonus and finish the wagering?
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1 year ago
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- I made the profit of 1,800 euros when the bonus was still "active", after which I canceled the bonus and initiated a payout. After that I won again 2,800 euros and 4,500 euros when the bonus was canceled a long time ago.
- There was no warning regarding that I can only withdraw 2x from my deposit. There was no WARNING!!
- The money was not automatically credited to me, only a day later after all my withdrawals were rejected, the "money" was credited to me
- There is no option to cancel the bonus cancellation
I would like to reiterate my previous message in which I state that I won within the money that was not doubled even from the bonus.
I repeat: $324 deposit from me - 300 bonus from the casino. I won within $24 which was not doubled by the casino as a bonus. You can choose how much bonus money you want to double and I chose the $300 option.
So I won within the $24 that had absolutely nothing to do with the bonus.
So I don't understand how the Terms and Conditions can apply here? Apart from all the other inconsistencies I've already listed.
I have backed and proven everything I claim with screenshots.
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1 year ago
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Please excuse me if I should write too much, but the cheekiness of this case makes me a little angry.
I just wanted to briefly refer to the terms and conditions which say:
" All winnings made before the reload bonus (deposit bonus) expires can be withdrawn by canceling the bonus. However, the maximum withdrawable profit is twice (2x) the original deposit amount. "
I am aware that I have already written something about this, but I would still like to clarify here that I canceled the bonus before my first requested payout and then continued to win. So all winnings I made after the cancellation, i.e. after "expiry of the reload bonus", should be legitimate and not fall under the terms and conditions and bonus conditions because, as already mentioned, I canceled the bonus after the first $1,700 win. Accordingly, it would only be logical if all winnings made after this ($2,800 and $4,500) rightfully belong to me and do not fall under the bonus terms as the bonus has expired/cancelled.
greeting
Thiemo
(PS: Please excuse me if I repeat myself in parts or post too much, I just want to make it clear that everything is understood.)
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1 year ago
Hi Thiemo,
Basically, as soon as you activate a bonus, it doesn't really matter if you play with a real money balance or bonus balance, the wagering requirement still applies. No casino will let you make some winnings while your bonus is active and then let you cancel the bonus and keep the winnings without finishing the wagering. However, in order to get a clear picture of what exactly happened let me contact the casino and I'll see what I can do to help. I would like to invite Sultanbet Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.
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1 year ago
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Maybe there is a possibility that I am allowed to pay out a little more as a sign of goodwill because I have won so much but can only pay out so extremely little?
I honestly don't know anymore...
Maybe I will be allowed to withdraw 20x or at least 10x my deposit amount?
Regarding their statement "No casino allows you to make some winnings while your bonus is active and then cancel the bonus and keep the winnings without completing the wagering." - I assumed that since I only claimed a $300 bonus and I won within my $24 not matched by the bonus, the bonus requirements didn't apply. Which I think would be very logical.
And if the bonus were non-sticky, which is actually advertised as well, then I would be able to pay out the entire winnings as soon as I win...
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1 year ago
Dear Peter,
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
We have had a thorough review of the user’s account, along with their bonus and full gaming activity and would like to shed some light on the matter.
The user has deposited 324 USD which they used in order to claim our welcome casino promotion at 23/05/2023 01:16:28. The way our bonus engine works (and this is clearly shown on the website) is that in order to receive a bonus, a customer needs to 'buy' it with a portion or full amount of their deposit. In this case, the player deposited 324 USD and bought a bonus of 300 USD. They have since proceeded to play with their funds and have only cancelled the bonus at 23/05/2023 01:43:12 after more than 400 gameplay rounds and generating profit while the bonus was in the account. At this point, the player requested a withdrawal which effectively cancelled the bonus, however, he left funds in the account to proceed to play.
It is important to emphasize that this amount had also been generated while having the bonus and bonus-related restrictions in their account, meaning it is subject to restrictions.
We would like to draw attention to the following term of our bonus Terms and Conditions which are available on our website at all times:
10. Any winnings made prior to the bonus expiring can be withdrawn by cancelling the bonus but the maximum winnings that can be withdrawn will be 2x the initial deposit amount. If the winnings are made from the initial deposit, the maximum withdrawal amount will be two (2x) times the initial deposit.
As per our Terms and Conditions we have adjusted the user’s balance and they currently have 648 USD on their account, for which they may feel free to instruct a withdrawal.
Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.
Kind regards,
Sultanbet
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1 year ago
Translation
I am well aware of their extremely unfair terms and conditions.
But I find it quite disappointing and very questionable that they don't address my points in any way, which I consider quite logical and understandable.
For one, I won within the $24 I didn't claim for the bonus. And therefore, in my opinion, no bonus terms should or can apply to it.
Furthermore, I consider it extremely questionable and unfair to set a 10x max cash out for the bonus balance but only a ridiculous 2x for the "real balance".
I wouldn't have said anything against a 10x max cashout but anything else is extremely unfair and totally unacceptable in my opinion.
Furthermore, their bonus is advertised as "non sticky". However, this is by no means a normal non sticky bonus, as a standard non sticky bonus in today's casino industry is defined as follows:
"If a casino offers a non-sticky bonus, this indicates that a player can withdraw the initial deposit as well as any winnings made from this deposit, without being required to fulfil any wagering requirement. This is a major benefit of playing at casinos that offer non-sticky bonuses."
So it's partly a question of deception here, since this definition does not apply to their bonus in any way.
I am again asking the casino and Casinoguru to allow me at least, as a goodwill gesture, to withdraw 10x my deposit so that this whole thing can be ended amicably.
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1 year ago
Hi all,
Thank you for your replies. We discussed this complaint internally and I would like to ask some additional questions.
Dear Sultanbet Casino team,
- Could you please send me the full terms of the bonus (peter.m@casino.guru)?
- Are the bonus money and real money displayed separately in the player's account?
- Is there any sort of notification that would warn players about the fact that if they make a withdrawal their bonus will be canceled (apart from the sentence in the T&Cs)?
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1 year ago
Dear Peter,
Thank you for your response.
Further to your query, please note that the bonus Terms and Conditions are available to all users on the website and can be found here: https://www.sultanbet.com/promotions/promotiondetails/3693
As far as the balance goes it is displayed to the users with both the total amount itself and also having a separation by bonus balance visible.
Regarding the withdrawal itself, when instructing a withdrawal with their non-sticky bonus active, customers receive a pop-up prompt that they would need to cancel their active non-sticky bonus before proceeding with the withdrawal.
As previously advised, the user in question has cancelled their bonus at 23/05/2023 01:43:12 after which they have issued their withdrawal at 23/05/2023 01:43:41.
We have adjusted the user’s balance as per our Terms and Conditions and the user currently has 648 USD available on their account.
Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.
Kind regards,
Sultanbet
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1 year ago
Thank you Sultanbet Casino team for the explanation and thank you Thiemo for your email.
Dear Thiemo,
As we gathered all the relevant information, we came to a conclusion. Our position is as follows: If a player with an active bonus requests a withdrawal, they should be warned that they may lose their winnings if they continue or the withdrawals should be blocked. The situation is, however, different if a player requests cancellation of the bonus. Generally, if you cancel your bonus, you can't expect that you will be able to withdraw your winnings from the bonus. I understand that in some casinos (rather rare situations) you can withdraw your winnings made from the real money part of the balance even if you have an active bonus. However, this is not the case. The bonus conditions are bound to the whole balance and therefore when you cancel your bonus, you lose your winnings. This is quite common and in most casinos, you don't even get a 2x of your deposit, you usually hardly get your original deposit back. I'm afraid we can't penalize the casino for this.
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1 year ago
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Thank you for taking the time to review this "case".
Could you please answer the following questions (at your own discretion and in your "legal" opinion).
If they can do so in good conscience, I will happily close this case.
- I deposited $324 - then I chose $300 as a bonus, which the casino credited to me. All of my subsequent winnings I won within the $24 not matched by the casino as a bonus . You can choose how much you want to match your deposit and I chose the $300 option. So how can it be that a maximum payment is made for an amount that was in no way influenced by the bonus and should therefore not be limited by the Bonus Terms? How can Bonus Terms be applied to winnings made within the money that was not benefited by the Bonus and therefore should not be subject to the Bonus Terms? Theoretically, that doesn't make any sense.
- The casino's bonus is advertised as "Non Sticky". Normal bonuses, and you have correctly determined that, are "sticky" and accordingly subject to wagering requirements and expire as soon as a bonus is canceled. "Non Sticky" bonuses are "usually" and in really ALL casinos that offer non sticky bonuses defined as follows: "A non sticky bonus in the casino does not "stick" to the deposit and is a coveted action of the providers. This is a debit of equity allowed at any time." At this point, I am only concerned with whether the presentation of the bonus as "Non Sticky" is misleading to the user. In my opinion the suggestion here is that you can withdraw ALL your winnings at any time since the bonus is non sticky and this is the standard in the casino industry for a bonus to be declared non sticky.
- Do you think the casino bonus terms are fair? A relatively easy question. How can it be fair that a maximum payout of 2x is stipulated on a "raw balance", regardless of whether it is "linked" to a bonus or not. Especially when the maximum payout of the bonus is 10x. I think that you should at least state on your site (Casinoguru) that the bonus terms of this casino are extremely unfair and bear no relation to the norms of other casinos. I'm also not aware of how these bonus terms can be legal, but as expected, no one from the Curacao complaints office has reported to take my case.
- You cannot wager the bonus within your raw balance. That is, as long as you haven't arrived within the bonus balance, in this case $300. Cannot wager the received bonus. So what is the point of this bonus? Could someone explain that to me? So I'm supposed to lose $324 of my own money first and then I can wager the bonus first and then withdraw 10x my deposit (if I win)? That means my actual balance has no value at all as soon as I accept the bonus until I get into the bonus, except that I can pay out a grandiose 2x my deposit? I would like to emphasize this again: You do not wager as long as you are not in the bonus balance! Again, my question: is that fair? Does it make sense? What is a rule like this doing in any casino?
(Edit: I added point 4 again because I remembered it.)
Thank you again for your help so far.
I'm just asking you to read through my listed points, answer them and focus specifically on point 1 here (hopefully after internal discussions). In my opinion the casino should "at least" allow me to withdraw 10x my initial deposit to show some kind of goodwill.
greeting
PS : I would be very obliged if you could answer my questions chronologically and under the respective points. I hope I can follow your train of thought.
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1 year ago
Hi Thiemo,
Thank you for the clear explanation of your point of view. I'll try to respond to every point as well as possible and I'll ask you some additional questions.
- In many casinos, as soon as you activate a bonus, you start playing with the bonus money (which consists of the deposit + bonus) and you are not allowed to play with the separate real money balance or the balance becomes a part of the bonus - that means, you can use it to wager the bonus. We can ask the casino representatives how this works in Sultanbet.
- There are many definitions of sticky and non-sticky bonuses. Each casino can define its rules and they differ from one casino to another. You can’t really rely on one of them to work universally.
- We find the casino’s T&Cs to be fair compared to other casinos. As stated above, in most cases, you wouldn’t even get 2x of your deposit.
- This part could also be explained by the casino. If the wagering is applied to your deposit + bonus balance, theoretically it wouldn’t matter if you played with your real money or bonus money, you would simply have to fulfill the wagering requirement.
Dear Sultanbet Casino team,
Could you please explain how it works with this bonus, please focus on points 1 and 4. What happened with the real money balance of $24 that wasn't used for the bonus and how it works with the wagering?
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1 year ago
Dear Peter,
Thank you for your response.
We would like to shed some light on the matter regarding the user’s queries in question.
Firstly, regarding the claim that they have won within their first 24 USD, after checking the user’s activity, we can confirm that that’s not the case and that they have in fact spent that amount and also went onto play outside of those funds with a game round on 5/23/2023 1:19:08 AM with the previous round on 5/23/2023 1:19:07 AM having spent those funds in its entirety.
Additionally, we would like to point out like you stated that as per our bonus Terms and Conditions the bonus is tied to the entire deposit and therefore the maximum withdrawal amount is based on your deposited amount and not the amount on which the bonus was claimed, which is why the user has 648 USD available, instead of 600 USD.
Lastly, regarding the wagering, please note that the non-sticky bonus serves as a type of safety net in case the users are unlucky with their deposit, which is why the wagering of the bonus funds is initiated once the user has spent their deposited amount. Should a customer decide to cancel their bonus they would only need to have wagered their deposited amount at least once, and no further wagering requirements would apply for that deposit, however since they have played with the bonus active, guaranteeing them safety in case they lost their funds, the maximum withdrawal from said deposit would be limited to 2 times the amount of the deposit.
We hope this brings more clarity to the situation.
Kind regards,
Sultanbet
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1 year ago
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Hello,
I would like to refer briefly to your first statement, in which you claim that I "didn't" win within the first $24.
As can be seen in the course that I have already uploaded and would like to upload again here, I start at 623 dollars (for whatever reason). And NEVER go below $599 at any point from then on.
623 - 599 = $24
So could you please explain to me how I am below the $24 bonus I didn't claim ?
Feel free to upload any screenshots of my history.
It's clear to see here that I've never lost more than $24. I have therefore always played with the money that was not favored by the bonus and should therefore not be bound by bonus terms.
Here again the "game round" to which you refer is clearly visible.
23:19:07 - $599
23:19:10 - $602
From this point on, I never go below $24 which shouldn't be affected by the bonus.
On this picture you can see again (but this time marked) that I had a starting balance of $623.
greeting
Saint90
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1 year ago
Dear Saint90,
Thank you for your response.
Further to your query, we would like to elaborate on the gaming history visible in your provided screenshots.
Please note that you have deposited 324 USD and claimed a 100% reload bonus on 300 USD bringing your total balance to 624 USD.
Be advised that the balance visible on the right-hand side in your gaming history is showing your remaining balance after the game round. As seen in your provided screenshots you have made your first stake of 1 USD which was a losing one, leaving you with 623 USD on the balance.
Moving on to round 11007-0104-22852641938, which you have provided, we can see that the remaining balance is 600.10 USD. With the following round you have gone beyond your initial 24 USD in leaving your balance down to 599.10 USD with round 11007-0104-22852642304, from which you’ve won 2.9 USD. Should we consider that there was a mixture of the two balances and even account for 10% of those potential winnings being from the initial 24 USD, we can see that with the subsequent round 11007-0104-22852643100 you have bet 1 USD and lost, which would mean that the initial 24 USD was lost in its entirety.
Furthermore, as we have previously stated, even if the winnings were from the initial 24 USD, which is not the case, the maximum withdrawable amount from said deposit would still be limited as you have gone on to play with the bonus active guaranteeing you safety in case you were unlucky with the deposit.
Even if you claim a bonus of less than 300 EUR with your deposit amount, the result will not change. Because when you claim the bonus, all the terms & conditions of bonus will apply.
We hope this brings more clarity to the situation.
Kind regards,
Sultanbet
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1 year ago
Hi all,
Thank you for your replies.
Dear Saint90,
I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with this one. I completely understand your confusion and frustration. However, there are not many casinos that let you withdraw your full winnings from the real money balance when you have an active bonus and the bonus conditions apply to the whole balance. Unfortunately, your complaint will be rejected. For future reference, I suggest contacting casino support before you start playing with a bonus to make sure the rules are clear. I wish I could be of more help.
Best regards,
Peter
