Lord of the Spins Casino - Player’s withdrawal has been denied.

I won this money and tried to withdraw, but they are saying that I did stick to the terms and conditions.

Dear Adam,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m afraid, I will need more information regarding your problem. Please could you elaborate? Which rules have been broken according to the casino? Have you accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus? If there’s any relevant communication, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru. I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hi there, they said that I waged more than 30%of my deposit and for that reason all my winnings are void. I don't understand now they can just withhold that money for me. It seems like that have these rules setup in their favour. So that if you do win they can use it against you. What about all my winning before I bet 30%?

Dear Adam,

Thank you very much for your quick reply. I have checked terms and conditions, and this is what I found:

"Betting rules

You must bet according to the specific rules of the game you are playing.

We reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for irregular play.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the smallest deposit currently in play.

Buying an in-game special feature (including but not limited to free spins) for a purchase/buy-in cost equal to or over the 30% of the current deposit in play."

Could you please advise if you have accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus, and advise how much was your last deposit? Thank you very much.

My last deposit was 300 euros. I wasn't aware of the bet limit and believe that if I hadn't won that they wouldn't have told me. If I new that I was betting to much and could never claim my winnings a wouldn't have played. I think that this is a big scam on there behalf so that they don't have to pay out. Also I believe that I had won quite a lot of money before going over the 30%. Should I not allow to keep this? It's seem that they have done this to a lot of people and are getting away with it. 58000euros is a massive amount of money and I think that they would have found any excuse to not pay out.

Thank you very much Adam for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

OK. Thank you

Hello Adam.

The most crucial question which still hasn't been confirmed by you is if you played with bonus money while you made the bets which were higher than €90. Most of the casinos have special terms during a bonus play which must be followed and not respecting them leads to confiscating the winnings and returning the deposit.

But you filled in our form, that your winnings were originating from real money (I just need to be sure here) because in this case applying such a rule we consider as highly unfair and predatory. In other words, if you played with the bonus, then the casino can use some special rules (and they should be clearly visible) but for real money play the game should be clear - and no such rules as 30% of the last deposit should be applied (why should I remember how much was my previous deposit and thinking on 30% from that all the time when I want to have fun, right?) 

Sad is that there is a group of casinos which still use this terms (even after we explained multiple times why we consider them as predatory, probably it depends on their platform, so it is not easy for them to change it) In the past, they confiscated lots of winnings based on this rule. As the defence they use: you agreed with our terms.

We already penalised these casinos - and as you can see, they don't have a good rating here. 

The good is that they are very active here, so I hope they will give us some official statement here. (but I am afraid that they will refuse to pay you)

Hi there. As far as I'm aware I believe that I was only playing with real money and no bonus. I think it's completely discussing that these cansio can do this. I believe that I won that money fairly. And have been scam out of 58000euros. I also won a tournament 1500 euros which I haven't got yet, and they said it would be pay out after 72 hours, that's from Tuesday night and it's now Sunday.

Why would they refuse to pay me if I haven't really done anything wrong?

When you open the game it says "this game can only be played using real money"

I have received my tournament winning.

We can confirm that the winnings were confiscated under the following terms:

16.2. We reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for irregular play.

16.3. "Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the smallest deposit currently in play.

Buying an in-game special feature (including but not limited to free spins) for a purchase/buy-in cost equal to or over the 30% of the current deposit in play is considered irregular play.

You may not agree to our terms and conditions, however it is the terms that you have agreed to when creating an account. At our casino, we make a point of having the rules in plain sight. Some feel that our terms do not fit their play and decide not to play.

Unfortunately we cannot overrule the finance team decision to confiscate the winnings owing to irregular play. The source of the confiscated winnings were successfully returned to the account balance.

That's very kind of you to return 300 euros went I won 58000!!! If I hadn't won would you have still returned the 300 euros?

I completely understand your feeling Adam.

Is it fair to hide behind rule which is written clearly in point 16.3 of general terms of conditions (written somewhere in the middle)? (rule 13.6. is interesting too) These two rules are something that we are fighting against all the time. We believe that rules like these create lots of negative experience, and most of the people are not aware that such rules may exist. Honestly, who read the full terms and conditions of the casino before depositing? Not so many people, maybe few, definitely not regular players.

So here is a conclusion: 

They confiscated your winnings originating from real money based on breaching the 30% rule. This rule would be breached even if I deposit €1000 and make 20 bets of €50 on the random game and then decide (because 21 is my lucky number) to deposit another €50, just to make my last 21st bet like 20 before. Do you see some logic here? I can't see it. If they let me make 20 times in row €50 bet what is different on the 21st?

What I see is the rule which is increasing the house edge because they are not returning deposits to those players who lose and breached this term, just void the winnings. If they wish you to keep your bets on 30% of your last deposit, they should enforce it by software. Sad is that this rule mostly hit the players with high winnings because they don't want to bet low when they win a fortune as you did.

Unfortunately, many times we discussed these rules with several casinos which still have it, and mostly it is the same story over and over about how they can't change these terms. My advice: If it is not possible to change this rule, then change the platform, find some reliable platform with standard terms and conditions. 

I am afraid that we can't solve your complaint, Adam. We will publish your complaint with the classification of "Against Fair Gambling Codex". It will have a significant negative impact on the rating. I am sad because Lord of the Spins casino representatives are very productive here and answering on time and very politely in most cases. However, our job is sort casinos from the best (safest) to the most unsafe. With terms and conditions like they have and complaints, we have no other option only lower the rating with every new case. 

Please, Lord of the Spins Casino representatives, consider what I wrote - maybe you can ignore this rule for real money players. (suggestion) or find some other way how to stay on the bright side of the gambling. Right now, you are leading your's casinos to the bottom of the pit, and it would be sad to have you there.

Thanks for your help in this matter. However I will always feel hard done by, this was a life changing sum of money and I don't believe by lowering the casnio ratings does me or anyone else in this situation justice. I'm going to speak with the British gambling commission to see if they would like to investigate this matter.

I completely understand your feelings. Just I think UKGC won't be able to help you - this casino operates under Curacao License - you should complain there, but don't expect some miracles. They are well known for their passivity.

OK. Thank you again.

Because Casino didn't react on our last message and because of all what we wrote above we are forced to close this complaint as "unresolved" with classification: Against Fair Gambling Codex.