BetPat Casino - Player’s bonus winnings have been confiscated.

Dear paclmaya,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. We will contact the casino and ask for their cooperation in resolving this issue, but, before we do so, could you please forward your bonus and deposit histories, along with any relevant communication, to petronela.k@casino.guru?

I have checked the general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found, https://www.betpat.com/en/static-texts/bonus-terms:

"It is forbidden to abuse the bonus offers available (customer bonus ratio (deposits : bonuses) over 50%). If any such cases come to light, the casino reserves the right to seize any winnings gained as a result of abusing the bonus offers or the entire money balance and disable the option of using any bonuses for that account in future"

Is this the exact rule that has been used to void your entire promotional winnings?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Anscheinend, wurde mir so gesagt. Ich hatte noch nie von dieser Regel gehört. Wie gesagt auch in anderen casinos nicht. Ich guck immer, was ist der maximaler mindesteinsatz, wie oft muss es umgesetzt werden, und welche Spiele darf ich nicht spielen. Nach so einer Regel hab ich nicht gesucht.

Aber ich gehe auch nicht davon aus, daß es so eine Regel gibt, wenn man mir jede Woche 2-3 neue Boni anbietet. Selbst im Chat hat die Mitarbeiterin nichts davon erwähnt, wie ich die Auszahlung getätigt habe. Ich hatte anfangs wie ich mit dem umsetzen fertig war 3400 Euro am Konto. Da hab ich mit ihr gesprochen und sie hat mir nachdem sie nachgeschaut hat gesagt, pro Tag darf ich 1000 Euro auszahlen lassen. In der Woche 5000 Euro. Und schon da hätte sie es sehen müssen, das ich kein Geld bekommen werde.

Und jetzt will man mir einreden das sowieso nur die 10fache Summe bei diesen Boni ausbezahlt wird. Was aber nicht stimmt, weil davon nie was drinnen stand. Ich spiele mit keinem Boni, wo man nur das 10fache der Einzahlung bekommt.

Aber Fakt ist dass das casino mein Gewinn behält, aber wenn ich mein Geld verliere mit dem Bonus, ist es okay und ich bekomm es nicht retour. Werde heute ein photo der ganzen Boni machen und ihnen senden

Habe die getätigten und genutzten Boni per emai gesendet

Thank you very much, paclmaya, for your reply and forwarded email. Do I understand correctly that the casino has approved a payout of 10x your last deposit?

Please see the following rule https://www.betpat.com/en/static-texts/bonus-terms:

"Any type of reload or deposit bonus that has been granted to you, subject to you having met all wagering conditions, you might be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 10 times your deposit amount. Any remaining balance will be considered forfeited. Progressive jackpot wins are exempt from this clause."

Aber dass sie mir das 10 auszahlen können ,wollen wie auch immer ,davon weiss ich nichts.

Und wie ich oben geschrieben habe-ist es schon sehr komisch dass das casino entscheidet wann wiviel ausbezahlt wird. Normalerweise muss das bei den Bonis die man annimmt auch dabei stehen.Und ich weiss bei einigen ihrer bonis steht das dabei.Aber in dem fall sicherlich nicht.

I fully understand your point of view, paclmaya. I would like to emphasize, that according to our Fair Gambling Codex https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#win-limits, we consider imposed win limit to be unfair and predator, only when it’s applied to a real money game, however, we accept bonus T&Cs that restrict the maximum cash out from a bonus play.

However, we strongly believe that a player shouldn’t be punished for taking Deposit Bonuses if they’re available or offered to them. If a casino believes that a player is abusing their bonus privilege, ideally, this could be revoked and not used to confiscate the winnings.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Martin who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

ich danke Ihnen

Hello paclmaya!

I will be taking care of your complaint from now on. I would like to ask representatives of BetPat Casino to join this discussion in order to help us resolving the issue.

PRIVATE:

In response to case re: king.pacco76@gmx.at Patrick Rysavi

Bonus restriction applies, not Deposit Bonus.

I hope the detailed information hear, will show that we are operating within our own terms and conditions as laid out at BetPat.com

It is clear that the customer knew without doubt our conditions and has tried to exploit our terms, which are that our bonuses are for recreational users and not bonus abusers by taking 13 Bonuses from a total of 15 deposits, and the following terms and conditions apply as laid out at BetPat.com at a ratio of 86% as I’m sure you will have seen before and agree.

CONCLUSION: Habit of a bonus abuser and not a recreational user.

Customer was emailed Friday 21 May 12:07 PM

Dear Patrick

Your balance has been cut to reflect the amount of bonuses taken from BetPat, which is a breach of our conditions.

You have taken 13 Bonuses from a total of 15 deposits.

Which is the habit of a bonus abuser and not a recreational user.

• It is forbidden to abuse the bonus offers available (customer bonus ratio (deposits : bonuses) over 50%). If any such cases come to light, the casino reserves the right to seize any winnings gained as a result of abusing the bonus offers or the entire money balance and disable the option of using any bonuses for that account in future please see. https://www.betpat.com/en/static-texts/bonus-terms

Our terms and conditions.

* Betpat reserves the right to suspend any player accounts that have proven to be involved in fraudulent and/or abusive activities. Potential winnings and/or Bonus money may be removed from such accounts.

* The Casino management reserves the right to exclude individual players from future Bonuses and campaigns. Any such exclusion may be lifted at the discretion of the Casino management of Betpat.

* To be eligible for any bonus offered by Betpat all personal information submitted must be up to date and accurate. Betpat reserves the right to remove any Bonuses and winnings for an account containing inaccurate or false personal details.

* Bonuses offered are intended for genuine recreational players only. The bonuses are not intended to be given to players that could be classified as "bonus hunters" or "bonus abusers".

* The management of Betpat casino reserves the right to withhold or seize any bonuses or winnings gained as a result of fraudulent or otherwise unfair practices.

We would suggest you make yourself familiar again with the full bonus terms and conditions on BetPat.

We have refunded your deposit to your account.

And you are restricted from taking any bonuses in the future.

https://www.betpat.com/en/static-texts/bonus-terms

https://www.betpat.com/en/static-texts/terms-and-conditions

Compliance Team

BetPat

Edinburgh +44 (0) 131 378 8530

London +44 (0) 203 0110 731

Montreal +5 514 819 0742

Curacao +5 999 788 9920

Customer was also restricted from taking any bonuses Friday 21 May 12:07 PM when he was emailed, and notified of this in email above.

All information is laid out on our website for our users to view, and customer was restricted from bonuses as per email.

Additionally, as you may know we are limited with being on a white label with SG International, and under limited conditions of automatically limiting bonuses to people who are over this 50% threshold, however customer should be aware of the terms and conditions when taking bonuses, I'm sure a habitual bonus abuser is well aware, this is why terms and conditions are in place.

Quoting your representative Kristina Stark 15 March 2021.

Sadly, there is not much I can do to support your case at this time, especially when the casino shares all the relevant information on the website.

you should always check the Bonus T&Cs and General T&Cs as well, because important information is often mentioned only there. Even if you’ve been informed falsely regarding the maximum cash out, I would call it an honest mistake and not an attempt to lie to you. Even if a live chat agent has provided incorrect information, the bonus terms and conditions always prevail.

We thank you for the opportunity to respond.

Support

BetPat

Also nochmals ,ich finde es lächerlich. Wer kommt auf die Idee,auf solche Bedingungen zu achten. Wie gesagt ich habe in keinem der anderen Casinos solche Bedingungen gehabt. Im Prinzip galt wenn ein Bonus da ist und du ihn nutzt ,dann beachte diese Bedingungen-Umsetzuing,gibt es ein limit,und so weiter. Aber nicht da ist ein Bonus,den sie mir ja per email zugesendet haben,damit ich überhaupt auf ihre seite schaue. Weil ich meistens nach den emails schaue und wenn was interessantes dabei ist,schau ich auf die casino seite. Und lese mir die üblichen bedingungen durch.

Nicht ich habe hier einen Missbrauch gemacht ,sondern Betpat. Wenn für einen Spieler keinen bonus zur verfügung steht, kann er ihn auch nicht nutzen.

Sie haben mir die email gesendet-ich habe nachgeschaut-bonus war da-ich habe ihn genutzt.

Und das geile ist ja,die Mitarbeiter dürften sich da auch nicht auskennen ,mit ihren Regeln. Weil ihre Mitarbeiter unterhalten sich mit mir-wollen Daten zum abgleich , schauen auf mein Konto und keiner hat was davon gesagt.

Man sagt mir wie oft ich auszahlen darf in der woche,im Monat,wieviel ich auszahlen darf-und noch immer davon keine Rede das ich "Bonusmissbrauch" gemacht habe. Ich habe sogar gefragt welche Spiele man da spielen darf und welche nicht!!! Wahnsinn der Missbrauch von mir! Ich versuche echt alles um einen Bonus zu erschwindeln. Lächerlich

Nur mal für sie zum thema Bonus:

Der Bonus ist nicht da um Spieler Freude zu bereiten,sondern dafür um es den Spieler schwerer zu machen ,damit er eine Auszahlung erreicht.

Es ist ja schon dumm von mir einen Bonus zu nehmen.Ich nehme aber immer nur bonus wenn ich wenig einzahle, damit ich länger spielen kann.

Sie oder der Nutzer des bonus macht sich das leben selber schwer,muss mal alles umsetzen.dann aufpassen welche Einsätze getätigt werden-Welches Spiel steht auf abschussliste,also darf nicht gespielt werden.

Und dann mal eine andere Frage? Wenn ich eine Auszahlung anordne-warum ist das Geld noch immer am Konto oben. Sind sie nicht verpflichtet das das angeordnete Geld sofort vom Spielerkonto des Kunden wegzunehmen.weil er diesen betrag ja auszahlen will. Und erst dann wieder zur Verfügung stellen wenn er die Auszahlung abbrich?

Zum Theman Missbrauch eines Bonusses.

Missbrauch findet nur dann statt,wenn ich es bewusst gemacht habe. Ich im Spiel irgendwelche aktionen mache wie bei einem Spiel in ein Freispiel zu kommen,aber das Freispiel erst nach dem ende des Bonus weiterführe. Habe ich bewusst den Bonus genutzt. Ja sonst hätte ich ja nicht eingezahlt. Und nein nicht um irgendwas zu missbrauchen sondenr einfach nur zum Spielen-wie in jedem anderen SERIÖSEN casino auch-Hier haben sie einen Bonus viel spass damit.

Und das mit den Freispielen habe ich sicherlich nicht gemacht.

Was dagegen haben sie gemacht.

Sie senden mir per email einen Bonus

Ich gehe auf ihre webseite

Frage nach was alles erlaubt ist-welche Spiele

Dann nutze ich den Bonus

Bis dahin -kein Mitarbeiter erwähnt was von der seltsamen Bedingung-auch nicht davon dass sie als Casino eventuell entscheiden können bei einer auszahlung-dass vielleich nzr das 10fache ausbezahlt werden muss.

Sollte eigentlich beim Bonus dabei stehen. Nicht aber bei Ihnen.

Als Casinobetreiber kennen sie natürlich ihre schwachsinnige Regel,die egentlich keinen SInn ergibt,nur den Spieler schaden. Selten so eine Regel gesehen die so sinnlos ist wie ihre .

Sie senden mir eine email wegen neue Bonis-obwohl sie wissen das wenn ich den Bonus nutze ,ich auf jedenfall schon verloren habe.

Sie nehmen meinen gewinn von 1000 euro ziehen 975 euro ab und die 25 euro die ich einbezahlt habe,darf ich retour haben. Weil ich ja gegen den Missbrauch aus ihrer Sicht verstossen habe.

Komischerweise kam es davor als ich Einzahlungen gemacht habe, obwohl ich ja laut ihren angaben Bonusmissbrauch betrieben habe, keine Beschwerde ihrerseits, wenn ich alles verloren habe. Waum kam da nicht mein Geld retour?

Wenn ich Missbrauch betreibe, was betreiben dann Sie ?

Ich habe es Ihnen schon einmal angeboten treffen wir uns in der Mitte-500 euro-aus fertig

Dear representatives of BetPat Casino,

I would like to ask you a few questions.

Is it true, that although the player received bonuses in the past, you did continuously market him with new bonus offers?

Since you have such rule in you T&Cs, do you try to prevent players from receiving further bonuses to prevent any situations like this?

I would like to clearly address here, that rules like these - when not enforced by a software or any other limitation - are considered unfair and predatory in our point of view.

Hi Martin

Player would be removed from marketing when they are found to be a bonus abuser.

Yes. When we are aware that customers are bonus abusers, they are restricted on our system from taking any offers they see on our site.

We don’t have any software to allow us to automatically place this in our system, but according to your site, when advising on bonus hunting https://casino.guru/bonus-hunting you advise people that this is picked up by a manager, which was the case.

"On the one hand a good casino manager may notice from your betting style that you are a bonus hunter. Your style with higher variance will differ a little from the style of casual players who are just killing their time in the casino. But most of the casinos will pay despite they think that you are a bonus hunter. They don’t want to risk their reputation for few thousand dollars."

This is is covered with Casino Guru fair gambling codex.

According to casino guru recommendations to battle bonus abusers

by implementing the ratio rule on our terms and conditions.

As stated in 9. Bonus hunting (bonus abusing)

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#bonus-hunting

Our recommendations for casinos

To battle bonus abusers, we recommend implementing additional rules in Bonus T&Cs to limit the ability to abuse casino bonuses. This makes bonuses unexploitable, meaning that the casino doesn't have to worry about bonus abusers.

9. Bonus hunting (bonus abusing)

Our position

If a player uses their own personal information to create a casino account, doesn't have duplicate accounts and follows all of the rules in the T&Cs, they should be able to use a casino bonus that has been given to them in any way they want.

They player has not followed all the rules in the T&C's

12. Enforcing rules

Our position and recommendations for casinos

If the casino decides to punish a player for doing something wrong, the least it can do is to let the player know how they specifically broker the rules and which rules were broken. The casino should at least include this information in the message informing the player about the issue:

Which rules they specifically broke (don't just quote the entire T&Cs)

When and how the player has broken the rules

How the player will be penalized, and whether there is something they can do

This has been carried out in full open communication with the customer, which means we have been fair and transparent over this claim, in accordance with our own policies and Casino Guru.

Dear BetPat Casino's representatives,

I am very glad that you took your time and went through our Fair Gambling Codex and try to act accordingly, however I am afraid that some of these points that you mentioned are being a bit misinterpreted.

"On the one hand a good casino manager may notice from your betting style that you are a bonus hunter. Your style with higher variance will differ a little from the style of casual players who are just killing their time in the casino. But most of the casinos will pay despite they think that you are a bonus hunter. They don’t want to risk their reputation for few thousand dollars."

Please note, the emphasis of this point is being focused on the style of bets, not the amount of bonuses received by the player, which is the point of dispute in this complaint.

"To battle bonus abusers, we recommend implementing additional rules in Bonus T&Cs to limit the ability to abuse casino bonuses. This makes bonuses unexploitable, meaning that the casino doesn't have to worry about bonus abusers."

The point here is to set the specific's bonus offer individual terms and conditions in a way, which the potential bonus abusers could not abuse the offer. Conditions like wagering requirements, maximum bets for example.

"If a player uses their own personal information to create a casino account, doesn't have duplicate accounts and follows all of the rules in the T&Cs, they should be able to use a casino bonus that has been given to them in any way they want."

I presume this point is very self-explanatory, once the player receives the bonus and stays within the boundaries of it's terms and conditions, there is no way this can be considered as a bonus abuse.

"If the casino decides to punish a player for doing something wrong, the least it can do is to let the player know how they specifically broker the rules and which rules were broken. The casino should at least include this information in the message informing the player about the issue:

Which rules they specifically broke (don't just quote the entire T&Cs)

When and how the player has broken the rules

How the player will be penalized, and whether there is something they can do"

I do believe this was done by your side and you clearly stated the point of the issue here in the complaint's thread.

However, let me repeat once again: "Additionally, as you may know we are limited with being on a white label with SG International, and under limited conditions of automatically limiting bonuses to people who are over this 50% threshold, however customer should be aware of the terms and conditions when taking bonuses, I'm sure a habitual bonus abuser is well aware, this is why terms and conditions are in place."

We strongly believe, that this specific rule, when not software enforced or prevented in any other way, is strictly unfair. To put it more simply, if you do not desire for the players to receive a specific ratio of bonuses to their deposits, you should simply not allow them to claim them in the first place. Letting the player to claim and wager the bonus and then afterwards considering him as a bonus abuser does not even make any sense.

I think you'r trying to move the goalposts from your own guidelines to suit this case.

"To battle bonus abusers, we recommend implementing additional rules in Bonus T&Cs to limit the ability to abuse casino bonuses. This makes bonuses unexploitable, meaning that the casino doesn't have to worry about bonus abusers."

The customer is a bonus abuser, this is your own advice we have followed, very clear.

ich glaube eher das dass Casinoguru-team was anderes gemeint hat.

Aber sie legen jede aussage so fest wie es ihnen am besten gefällt.

Sie meinten wahrscheinlich eher wenn ich nicht mit bonus spielen darf sollte man das system so auslegen ,das es mich gar nicht dazu lässt, den bonus zu nehmen. Wie in jedem anderen Casino auch.

Wie gesagt ich kenne diese Regel nicht, in keinem der top-casinos gibt es diese Regel.

Die einzigen Regeln die einzuhalten sind, die die üblichen regeln.

Wetteinsatz, Wie oft muss umgesetzt werden, welche Spiele sind ausgeschlossen vom Bonus.

Was darf man nicht.

Was können sie erwarten vom Bonus.

Das heisst es ist schon beim Bonus sichtbar, was alles erlaubt ist.

Und selbst bei Ihnen steht drauf, was umgesetzt werden muss, wie hoch der wetteinsatz ist-aber es steht zum beispiel nicht wieviel ausbezahlt wird.

Sie schmeissen eine Klausel in den Bedingungen rein,die kein Spieler kennt. jetzt durch ihnen schon.

Ein casino kann entscheiden wie oft er einen einzahlung bei bonussen auszahlt? Auch wenn es vorher nicht bei dem speziellen Bonus dabei stand?

Das muss schon vorher drinnen stehen,und wenn es nicht dabei steht.

Sollte sie sich nicht als Casino eher Sorgen machen wie es um den Ruf ihres Casino steht,wenn sie solche Bedingungen anwenden?

As a matter of fairness and closure on this long winded discussion.

As an act of further fairness.

On this case would like to withdraw the ratio deduction on your winnings, and revert back to the 10x on deposit, which you are aware of.

We would like to remind the customer to read the terms and conditions on any casino they play at, to make themselves aware of rules that they might break, which has happened here.

Your deposit as mentioned above, you are aware of the x10 deposit limit, so in the manner of fairness, we will place back on your balance €250 which you are free to play or withdraw.

If you play, please remember there is a radio condition placed on your account, and you will not be eligible to select any bonuses, as this is stopped by our system.

If you wish to withdraw this amount, I will personally over see this to make sure it is approved and received.

We will put a recommendation in to having an automated system, to prevent this issue arising again in the future, however I suspect development work form the platform provider will take some time, but we agree that if this system was in place, then it would have stopped this situation in the first place.

We would like to offer this as an amicable close to this situation.

If you reply you agree, I will personally take care of this today.

Hello paclmaya!

I would like to ask you to comment on the decision of the casino. In case you'd agree, we will leave the complaint until you'd receive your withdrawal.

gut werde ich so annehmen,mussich die einzahlung selber durchführen oder werden die 250 euro automatisch überiwesen-kontodaten sollten ja bekannt sein

You had already deposited €25, so 10x 25 = €250.

So there is no need to deposit again.

We will credit your account back with €250 if you agree to the above.

hab ich doch gesagt,es ist okay für mich

€250 Has been credited to your account.

You can play with it or you can withdraw it.

If you withdraw this amount, we will make sure this is approved for you this afternoon.

Please remember that bonuses are excluded from your account till your ratio reduces to 50% if you decide to play the amended balance.

Hello pacimaya!

Please, let us know when you will receive your withdrawal.

habe eine auszahlung von 200 beantragt,und 50 lass ich mir zum spielen-wenn es recht is

This will be approved today, all the best of luck with your remaining balance.

danke ,ich hoffe dass es dann keine probleme gibt wenn ich mit dne 50 euro am konto nochmals auszahlen will,weil ich was gewonnen habe

Congratulations, put a withdraw request in as normal.

Geld wurde heute überwiesen. Für mich ist das Thema mit diesem Casino erledigt.Ich hoffe aber dass das Casino eine neue Bewertung bekommt, damit sich es die Leute 2mal überlegen dort einzuzahlen

As the complaint has been successfully resolved, we will now close it as ‘resolved’ in our system. Thanks for cooperation and don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future. We are here to help.