Amok Casino - Player’s requesting a full deposit refund.

Liebes Team von Casino Guru

Liebes Team von Amok Casino

Ich beziehe mich im Folgenden auf eine identische Beschwerde, die von Casino Guru bereits beantwortet wurde:

Amok Casino - Der Spieler beschwert sich, dass er nicht spielen können sollte. (casinoguru-de.com)

Im Folgenden reiche ich eine offizielle Beschwerde gegen das Amokcasino mit der Lizenznummer MAG / B2C / 367 / 2016 ein.

Zuerst möchte ich erwähnen, dass ich seit Monaten auf Amokcasino spiele und ich halte das Casino durchwegs für ein seriöses Casino. Auszahlungen wurden jeweils schnell getätigt und der Support hat stets freundlich, kulant und schnell auf meine Anfragen geantwortet.

Leider muss ich aber feststellen, dass das lizensierte Casino mit dem Namen Amokcasino gegen die RESPONSIBLE GAMING – Policy verstossen hat. Am 23. März 2022 liess ich mich auf allen online-Casinos sperren. Gestern Nacht habe ich – aufgrund meiner Spielsucht – dennoch versucht einen Account bei einem online-Casino zu erstellen, jedoch ohne Erfolg. Ich habe bei rund 300 online-Casino versucht einen Account zu erstellen, doch leider war ich – zu Recht – überall gesperrt. Eine einzige Ausnahme im ganzen online-Casino-Universum stellt Ihr Amokcasino dar. Hier konnte ich weiterhin einzahlen und verlieren. Dies obschon ich bei deren Tochtergesellschaften ebenfalls gesperrt bin (Refuel Casino, Mount Gold Casino). Aus diesem Grund muss ich leider annehmen, dass Amok Casino mich weiterhin einzahlen und spielen liess, obschon Sie bestimmt eine Meldung erhalten haben, meinen Account ebenfalls zu schliessen. Leider konnte ich weiterhin einzahlen und habe seit dem 23. März 2022 über 12'000 Euro einbezahlt und verloren.

Vor einigen Wochen bekam ich die Meldung von Amok Casino, dass ich meine Kontoauszüge (Einzahlungen und Auszahlungen der letzten 2 Monate) einreichen muss, um weiter spielen zu können. Als ich nach einem Cash-Bonus fragte, hiess es, dass Sie mir keinen geben könnten, da ich erst meine Geldquellen offenlegen muss. Nichtsdestotrotz konnte ich weiterhin einzahlen und über 12'000 Euro erspielen. Erst als ich sagte, meinen Account zu schliessen, habe ich – damit ich bei Ihrem Casino weiterspiele – einen Cashbonus von 300 Euro erhalten.

Heute wollte ich 70 Euro einzahlen und bekam die Meldungen, dass ich keine Einzahlungen tätigen kann, weil ich die geforderten und oben beschriebenen Kontobewegungen nicht eingereicht habe. Seit Wochen fragt mich Amok Casino um diese Dokumente an und trotzdem konnte ich über 12'000 Euro einzahlen. Heute konnte ich keine Einzahlungen tätigen, weil ich meine Kontobewegungen nicht eingereicht habe. Weshalb kann ich erst seit heute keine Einzahlungen tätigen? Nach den Kontobewegungen fragen Sie seit Wochen und trotzdem konnte ich weiter einzahlen und spielen. Es ist ebenfalls fragwürdig, dass ich bei jedem erdenklichen Casino weltweit online gesperrt bin, mit einer Ausnahme. Amok Casino. Können Sie bestätigen, dass Sie keine Meldung erhalten haben, mein Konto zu sperren? Weshalb konnte ich in den letzten Wochen Einzahlungen tätigen, obwohl ich keine Kontodokumente eingereicht habe? Und weshalb kann ich heute keine Einzahlungen tätigen, weil ich keine Kontodokumente eingereicht haben.

Ich fordere von Amok Casino mein einbezahltes und verlorenes Geld seit Kontoschliessung bei deren Schwestergesellschaften zurück und bitte das Casino höflich, sich in Zukunft an die RESPONSIBLE GAMING-Policy zu halten. Es ist wichtig, dass sich die Casinos von Infiniza Limited Ihrer Verantwortung für RESPONSIBLE GAMING bewusst sind und alle Massnahmen treffen, damit Glücksspielsüchtige nicht rückfällig werden. Da das Casino von mir seit Wochen weitere Dokumente zur Überprüfung meiner Geldquellen forderte, war es offensichtlich klar, dass ich aufgrund Spielsucht überprüft werde. Der Verdacht auf Spielsucht war also gegeben. Dass ich über 12'000 Euro einzahlen konnte, obwohl ich die Dokumente nicht eingereicht habe, ist fragwürdig. Dass ich heute nicht mehr einzahlen konnte, weil ich besagte Dokumente nicht eingereicht habe, bestätigt die Willkür des Casinos.

Es ist ebenfalls fragwürdig, dass ich bei den Schwester-Casinos von Amok-Casino (Refuel Casino, Mount Gold Casino) wegen Spielsucht gesperrt wurde, aber weiterhin bei Amok Casino einzahlen und verlieren konnte.

Ich war immer ein treuer und bitte nun das Casino höflich meinen Fall zu überprüfen und sicher zu stellen, dass im Hinblick, auf die RESPONSIBLE GAMING alles korrekt verlaufen ist. Ich bin der Meinung, dass Amok Casino gegen die RESPONSIBLE GAMING –Policy verstossen hat. Es ist wirklich verdächtig, dass Amok Casino das einzige Casino weit und breit ist, auf dem ich noch einzahlen und spielen konnte. Aus diesem Grund verlange ich meine Verluste seit dem 23. März 2022 oder seit dem Zeitpunkt, als ich bei den beiden Schwester-Casinos wegen Spielsucht gesperrt wurde- zurück. 

sincerley

Dario J*********

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

Please understand that if you self-exclude yourself from one casino it doesn’t necessarily mean that you are protected on all the other associated websites. Could you please advise if you have requested a self-exclusion from Amok Casino directly?

If there's any relevant communication, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Guten Tag

Herzlichen Dank für die Antwort. Natürlich weiss ich, dass man einen Selbstausschluss immer direkt beim Casino beantragen muss und eine Anfrage um Selbstausschluss bei einer Schwestergesellschaft nicht automatisch bei anderen Casinos zum Zuge kommt. Diesen allgemein bekannten Gedankengang hatte ich auch, - bis ich auf folgende Beschwerde gestossen bin:

Amok Casino - Der Spieler beschwert sich, dass er nicht spielen können sollte. (casinoguru-de.com)

Ich bin der Meinung, dass Ihre Schlussfolgerung in eben erwähnter Beschwerde auch in meinem Fall gilt. Sollte dies nicht der Fall sein, bitte ich um Erklärung.

Im Weiteren mache ich nochmals darauf aufmerksam, dass ich am 23. März 2022 von ALLEN Limited Inifinza-Casinos gesperrt wurde. Mit einer Ausnahme: amokcasino! Amokcasino hat noch 2 weitere Schwestergesellschaften (Mount Gold + Refuel), bei denen ich auch gesperrt wurde. Ich zweifle daran, dass Sie von meiner automatischen Sperrung nichts wussen, zumal ich bei hunderten anderen Casinos zeitgleich gesperrt wurde.

Dear Mister_Schweiz,

Based on the rules of the MGA license, players' accounts would be suspended across the entire platform if the reason for the self-exclusion was gambling addiction.

"(4) Any exclusion implemented in terms of this article shall be offered:

…

(b) Across all the means by which the B2C licensee provides its services, and,

optionally, but not alternatively to the latter, across one or more websites and,

or one or more remote means.

…

Provided further that, in the event that a player has been excluded by the B2C

licensee in light of sufficient reasons which indicate that the player may have problem

gambling issues, that player shall be excluded across all brands operated by the B2C

licensee"

Could you please forward any supporting evidence that the reason for your self-exclusion from any of the following casinos was a gambling addiction?

Thank you very much in advance.

Good day.

I hope that the conversation, that I send now to Petronala help you further. This confirms my statements made in my first message, which I do not want to repeat again.

kind regards

Thank you very much, Mister_Schweiz, for the forwarded emails. I have corrected the disputed amount.

Do I understand correctly that your self-exclusion at Refuel Casino has been activated on the 28th of February 2022?

Have you saved your cashier history from Amok Casino, please?

Guten Tag

Am 28. Februar 2022 wurde ich auf Refuel-Casino wegen Spielsucht gesperrt. Dies hat mir der Support mehrmals bestätigt. Ich schicke Ihnen die entsprechende Unterhaltung per E-Mail zu.

Wie in meiner ausführlichen ersten Nachricht wurde ich am 28. Februar 2022 von hunderten online-Casinos gesperrt, auch von Refuel. Leider nichte von amok-Casino. Ich halte dies nach wie vor für einen Verstoss gegen die RG-Policy.

Den Kassiererverlauf habe ich gespeichert. Die verlorene Summe seit dem 28. Februar 2022 auf Amok-Casino hat mir der Support von Amok-Casino per E-Mail bestätigt. Auch diese Mail sende ich Ihnen.

Herzlichen Dank

Additional information from the player:

Thank you very much, Mister_Schweiz, for the forwarded emails. Could you please advise if you have received any winnings from Amok Casino since the 28th of February?

Good day.

Thank you very much for examining the evidence that I have emailed to you. Regarding your question: No, I have not received any winnings paid out on Amok Casino since February 28, 2022. I'll send you an email that says so.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your commitment. It is difficult when a player has to file a complaint against a casino alone, as casinos are always looking for new reasons not to admit wrongdoing. Therefore: Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mister_Schweiz, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef (jozef.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

PS: I have corrected the disputed amount from €22,086 to €21,809

Hello Mister_Schweiz.

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Hello there,

see the casino reaction below.

After a reviewing of this player’s account we can confirm the following:

Player implemented an indefinite self-exclusion at Mount Gold Casino on the 18th of January of this year. 

Please be advised that our Terms and Conditions https://www.amokcasino.com/terms-and-conditions/ clearly state the following with regards to the self-exclusion policy: 

- 14.3. SELF EXCLUSION POLICY 

Please note that any self-exclusion requested on Our Website is only applicable to this Website. Therefore, We recommend You to consider extending Your self-exclusion to each operator where You hold an account with.

On another hand this player never had an indefinite self exclusion at Amok Casino. His last definite self exclusion has lasted from the 2022-02-11 until the 2022-03-13.

At no given time player contacted our customer support mentioning his gambling issues, until the 18th of April 2022. Straight after we received this communication, we processed to permanently close all his accounts as per responsible gaming policy and informed him accordingly.

Please, could you confirm their statement?

Good day.

I read the message from Amok Casino . Casino Guru now wants me to comment on Amok Casino's response. However, I did this several times and in great detail, also submitting evidence and chat logs. I think that Casino Guru should present her point of view now that she has received the opinions of the parties and numerous documents. I could only repeat myself. I see that Amok Casino does not address my argument in any way. I like to repeat a third time that I also refer to the following statement.

Amok Casino - Der Spieler beschwert sich, dass er nicht spielen können sollte. (casinoguru-de.com)

I would be happy if my case GOT the attention it deserves. It is a pity that Amok Casino does not respond to my explanations and arguments. I have said several times and very many times that I have been banned from all casinos in the group except Amok Casino. I want to know if it was done properly in that regard.

Why was I banned from Refuel Casino? I am tired of explaining and proving everything again. 

Best regards

PS. I would like to repeat that I was encouraged to file the case in the first place due to the following case.

Amok Casino - Der Spieler beschwert sich, dass er nicht spielen können sollte. (casinoguru-de.com)

The player complains that he should not be able to play as his account got closed for gambling addiction in a sister casino.

Casino Guru's response was:

" As far as we know, they should block all of your account within a same group and refund your deposits if they allow to - this is based on their license which they should follow." (...) "This means that you should exclude yourself from every single casino one by one - we find this casino term going against the terms of the license and as we do not have enough information why did the casino allow you to play, only the license can help right now. They have full access to their data and in this case we think they should favor you and Amok Casino should refund all of your deposits."

Addendum: Three weeks ago, Petronela from Casino Guru wrote to me: "Based on the rules of the MGA license, players' accounts would be suspended across the entire platform if the reason for the self-exclusion was gambling addiction".

As a result, I was asked by Petronela to prove that I was banned from one of the group's casinos for gambling addiction. I have sent this evidence multiple times (several different emails and chat histories with the casino Refuel) confirming that I have been banned from Refuel Casino since February 28th, 2022 for gambling addiction. Casino Guru has received several documents in which Refuel-Casino confirmed that I have been banned for gambling addiction since February 28th. Petronela posted a screenshot above. 

Why Amok Casino does not say a word about the Refuel Casino in its statement and instead only talks about the Mountgold Casino is inexplicable to me.

I now ask Casino Guru to carefully review my case and read the whole conversation and then post their opinion. Many thanks for your valued work.

Kind regards

Dear Mister_Schweiz.

Unfortunately, we have reached the clash of two parties. We understand that the casino has certain policies and methodology for how they proceed with self-excluded players between related casinos (backed by their T&Cs). And, MGA has certain standards backed by their terms.

If you were clearly promised in connection with the regulatory (MGA) that you will be self-excluded in the whole group, but the casino behaved correctly in their terms, we believe this case should be decided by the MGA (as it was in the case you were referring to). So, the most valid option how to solve this case is to file an official complaint at ADR and licensing authority of the casino. Are you going to do it?

I will gladly help you with it, you may reach me at the email address mentioned below.

jozef.k@casino.guru

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to react in the given time frame, we will reject your complaint.

Dear Josefz

Thank you for your message. I'm a little irritated that Casino Guru doesn't dare to express his opinion on the case and come to a conclusion. As requested, I described my case in detail several times and submitted all the necessary documents.

On April 21st, 2022 Petronela from Casinio Guru wrote me the following:

"Based on the rules of the MGA license, players' accounts would be suspended across the entire platform if the reason for the self-exclusion was gambling addiction".

and asked me if I was banned from one of the group's online casinos. I have subsequently sent a screenshot proving that I have been banned from Refuel Casino for gambling addiction since February 28th, 2022. Petronela posted the screenshot in this conversation on April 28, 2022.

For these reasons I come to the conclusion that I should have been banned from Amok Casino as well, which is part of the same casino group. Instead, I paid in over 20,000 euros.

I urge you now to look at the case again and to dare to express your opinion on the case. This would also help me when filing an official complaint with the ADR. Thank you very much.

A few more questions:

1. Does an official complaint to the ADR have any chance at all? Is this treated at all?

2. How long does it take to process a complaint.

What is your experience in this regard.

Thank you in advance for your help and I hope you can come up with a personal result that reflects YOUR opinion. I know that Casino Guru always wants to be on the safe side when it comes to advice, but I think there was enough evidence and description of my case.

Best regards

Dear Mister_Schweiz.

I have expressed our opinion, but I fully understand that it is not clear or certain. The reason is simple, according to the gambling standards in the industry, we would be on the casino side. The casino team behaved according to their T&Cs and the whole process is very common in the industry. However, the licensing authority (MGA) has certain standards that should be carried out by the brands, they are regulating. Therefore, it is the official ADR and the MGA, who should decide on this matter (the first step is ADR) and only then force the casino to do the refund.

To answer your questions:

1. We have only positive experiences with official ADRs of the MGA brands. If their decision is not sufficient, you can still reach directly MGA. 

2. Usually it takes just a few weeks.

There have already been multiple cases where official ADR managed to help players to resolve the cases according to the MGA policies. I highly recommend you do so. When you confirm, I will close this case as 'waiting for the regulator's decision'. We will continue with our discussion through email during the whole process. When there is a decision, we will update the complaint accordingly.

Let me know if you have further questions.  

Thank you for your response. It's strange to me that Casino Guru sometimes thinks that if you've been banned from one casino for gambling addiction, you shouldn't play at any casino from the same groups. Petronela informed me of this and you behaved accordingly in other complaints.

I am happy to submit an official complaint. Could you help me with this via email? I have no experience with it. Thank you very much.

Hello there.

Since we are going to contact the licensing authority, I am closing the case as 'waiting for regulator decision'. When ADR or MGA decides, we will update this thread accordingly.

Best regards, Jozef

28.12.2022 Update:

The player has reached ADR, their decision was in his favour. But it looks like the casino remained silent during the whole process.

18.4.2023 Update:

The player has reached us with decision from the regulator.

Good day

The ADR ruled in my favor because, according to the MGA policy, it is a duty for casinos to ban players at all sister casinos if they are addicted to gambling. 

The MGA informed me that according to the MGA policy, decisions of the ADR must be followed by the player and the licensee. As a result, I got the sum of €21,809 refunded by the casino.

Thank you very much for your help, dear Jozef

Dear Dario,

Thank you very much for informing us about the outcome. I am very glad that the case got to the satisfactory phase. I am closing it accordingly.

Best regards, Jozef