Stake Casino - The player's self-exclusion failed.

D. 27 Maj Skriver jeg til chat support at jeg vil have min konto lukket permanent.

De siger jeg først skal tage en 24 timers cool down periode før at jeg kan beslutte mig for yderligere udelukkelse.

Jeg nævner for dem at jeg har et stort problem med ludomani og at jeg ikke ville kunne udelukke mig selv hvis jeg ikke får gjordt det nu.

De gør ikke mere ved sagen, 4 dage senere falder jeg igen, jeg prøver at udelukke mig selv men kan ikke engang tage en 24 timers cool down periode da den er deaktiveret.

Jeg skriver i raseri til chat support at det ikke er muligt for mig at udelukke mig selv og jeg derfor igen gerne vil have min konto deaktiveret permanent.

Chat support forslår jeg skal tjekke min spam indbakke for selv udelukkelse og finder mailen godt gemt i min spam indbakke.

Da jeg så prøver at udelukke mig selv ved hjælp af link fra mailen siger den at den er forældet.

Kan nu værke slevudlukke mig selv med mail eller ved selvbetjening på deres site.

Jeg beder derfor igen chat om at udelukke mig permanent og hun siger derefter hun ikke har autoritet til at gøre dette hvorefter jeg beder om at få kontakt til en der har autoritet til det.

Hun henviser til jeg skal sende en mail til support@stake.org, hvilket jeg gør, da jeg beder dem om at udelukke mig permanent skriver de nu at min selv udelukkelse er forældet og jeg igen skal vente 24 timer selvom de ved jeg har været igennem dette før ude at kunne udelukke mig selv.

Jeg falder desværre i igen og nu 5 måneder efter har jeg mistet alle mine penge og står nu til at miste min virksomhed.

Det meget vigtigt at jeg fik den udelukkelse for det var i disse måneder at jeg tjente mine penge.

I alt har jeg inbetalt mere end 1.4 millioner kr. udbetalinger ikke medregnet her.

Jeg ønsker at få alt det jeg har inbetalt til stake i perioden på de 5 måneder tilbage.

Jeg har lidt meget smig og smerte og tanker jeg helst ikke vil dele med andre.

Jeg står til at miste min virksomhed og har ingen penge tilbage, alt er tabt og det kunne have været forhindret hvis blot at stake ikke havde svigtet mig.

Hello d4n13n,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Stake Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if you requested for account closure or self-exclusion? Did you ever mention to the casino any gambling issues or addiction? Can you please forward your initial request of your exclusion to nikolas.b@casino.guru together with all the deposits since then? Is your account currently still active? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

I asked for both account closure and permanent exclusion more than 8 times. According to their Self-Exclusion Policy I did mention I had a gambling problem by definition.

From Stake Casino

3. What is Problem Gambling?

Problem gambling occurs when a person loses control over their gambling, particularly the amount of money gambled and the amount of time devoted to gambling.

I told my VIP Host that I wanted my account closed permanently, because I was betting more than my budget (Loses control over the amount of money I gambled)

And I told live chat I wanted to be self-excluded permanently because a 24 hour cool down would lead me right back to betting. A clear definition of addiction.

Note my English isn't my native language so if Stake didn't understand what I was saying then they could have asked me to elaborate.

My account is no longer active, it was permanently banned after I contacted live chat stating I wanted to file a dispute to the relevant Gambling Authority because Stake had let me into addiction refusing my self exclude request.

Live support told me they wasn't authorise to exclude people when I was begging to be self excluded, and then live support excluded me 5 month later, so they must have lied the first time to keep me gambling.

Hello d4n13n,

So just to sum it up - after you requested for self-exclusion, your account was set on a 24 cooling off period. After that it took 4 days to completely close your casino account?

Thank you d4n13n for all the information. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Jozef who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Thanks Nick,

I’ve blurred out the sensitive information on my latest reply so It’s okey for me if you make it public

Hi d4n13n,

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

Hi Jozef, can I get your email?

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Since we haven’t received any response from the casino regarding the issue, we are forced to close the complaint as ‘unresolved’. The casino can reopen this complaint anytime.

Dear d4n13n,

I am very sorry, but since the casino team is unresponsive, we’re not able to proceed with further investigation. Another option is to file an official complaint at the licensing authority of the casino. I will gladly help you with it, you may reach me at the email address mentioned below. Please, be aware that this complaint will affect their reputation on our website. Let me know if you have any questions or require further assistance.

Best regards, Jozef

jozef.k@casino.guru

We’ve reopened this complaint as per the casino's request. We would like to give this case one more chance to get resolved and help both involved parties to reach to a satisfactory conclusion.

Dear Casino Guru,

Following the player's complaint, please find below our formal response.

a) 31st March 2021

The player contacted his VIP saying he wants to delete the account and explain the reason for it. However, the player never mentioned that he was addicted or showed any kind of gambling issues. Either way, our VIP Host guide the player through the self-exclusion procedure so that he could request the same. However, the player never opted to request the self-exclusion and opted to continue to play at Stake.com.

b) 27th January 2022

On the 27th of January, the player started the self-excluding procedure on our website and requested it directly on its account, but only set it for one month. Accordingly, the player had the opportunity to self-exclude his account permanently, but he opted to only exclude himself for 1 month. Also, note that the player never mentioned any kind of gambling addiction in his communications.

c) 27th May 2022 and 4th June 2022

After the 1 month self-exclusion, the player came back to Stake.com and continued to play on the same with some 1 day breaks in between. However, the player never contacted support or Stake to mention he was gambling addicted. We have accessed all the communications with the player and we can confirm that only on the 23rd of September 2022 the player contacted Stake saying that he wanted a reimbursement since he was gambling addicted. As soon as we received the player's communication our support team immediately banned the player.

According to the above, we can see that the player had multiple chances to self-exclude himself and never did it. Instead, he just requested a 1 month self-exclusion. Also, the player had many channels available to contact Stake, and only in September decided to start using the same. It is our understanding that Stake cannot be liable for the player's behavior and that the player is not entitled to any reimbursement.

Best regards,

 Stake

Dear d4n13n,

could you confirm the casino statement? Please, be aware that although you may have shown some signs of losing control, it is not always easy to detect them correctly. The important factor, according to our policies, is the situation when the casino was clearly aware of your addiction. Based on the casino statement, it was the 23rd of September, are you aware of mentioning gambling addiction sooner?

All private data has been censored so please make this public

I can't confirm this since Stake has suspended me from all my conversations, so I can't look through them, I have collected a compilation of some of the screenshots I got.

But I believe I showed clear signs of gambling addiction and I took contact to GamCare and showed them my messages with Stake and they also told me that Stake was wrong not excluding me.

And as Stake stated in this email, I didn't have to tell them I had a gambling addiction, the slightest signs of gambling addiction would be enough to get my account closed.

I also found an email where I mentioned to Stake that my cool-down was completed and I wanted a permanently exclusion but they only gave me a new cool-down periode and I requested the staff to exclude me permanently once the cool-down has been completed as well.

"The important factor, according to our policies, is the situation when the casino was clearly aware of your addiction."

Is this really the right approach? - Wouldn't this just allow the casino to always say they wasn't aware?

And to elaborate Stake's response

a)

I didn't exclude myself because my VIP host offered me a bonus that I could only claim if I didn't excluded myself - please note that I did NOT ask for a bonus but was offered it out of the blue.

And secondly, I asked to get my account deleted and the VIP host referred me to the self-exclusion which is not what I asked for.

"Regulations for companies storing data from european citizens "

New regulations, written by the Article 29 Data Protection Working Party, came out in spring 2016 and information on this group, including regulatory text, can be found here. 

On their site, the page "Protecting your data: your rights" states that users can ask several things of "persons or entities which collect your personal data" including:

So I have the right to ask for the deletion of my account, even though Stake might keep my data by law.

It's also important to notice that I did not request compensation from 31st marts 2021 but from the 27st may 2022.

b & c)

As Staked stated "After the 1 month self-exclusion, the player came back to Stake.com".

This confirms that Stake was aware of my problem, and by definition I clearly stated I have a gambling addiction according to their term of service. (Please see above responses)

Also if we use Stake's Logic, then we could say I never mentioned I had a gambling addiction the 23rd of September. I mentioned that I fell into my addiction, this could be smoking, alcoholism or drugs - So they instantly banning me for just saying addiction without referring to gambling must have indicated they knew I was addicted to gambling.

Why would Stake now say : "It is our understanding that Stake cannot be liable for the player's" when their

Self-Exclusion Policy clearly stated:"We are committed to sharing responsibility, with Governments and communities and individuals, for helping customers control their gambling, and helping problem gamblers to identify their problem and seek assistance."

Staked haven't answered any above question in my previous responses so here they are again:

e1) : Did I make it clear that I wanted my account excluded permanently?

e2) : Did I make it clear that I wanted my account deleted/closed?

e3) : Why was the self-exclusion button disabled on the website for 8 days?

e4) : Stake live chat told me they wasn't authorised to exclude players - So how could Live chat exclude me 23rd of September?

If they are permitted to exclude gambling addicts then they should have told me that. Telling me that they aren't authorised was clearly a lie they told me to avoid identifying my addiction.

e5) : Stake told me they by law and regulations are permitted to close accounts on slightest signs of gambling addiction - What do they indicate as the slightest sign of gambling addiction?

Stake has acces to my sessions, deposits, and multiple self-exclusion requests, not to mention I clearly told them I have lost control over the money spent gambling and I would be back after a 24 hour cool-down so I needed to be excluded permanently instantly.

Please see the article in the respond above that explains 95% of people that want to self-exclude have problem gambling / gambling addiction.

According to stakes terms they are trained in identifying gambling addiction so Stake must have known about my problematic gambling behavior one way or the other. They observed me deposit and gamble high amounts within a few days.

Even my VIP Host mentioned I have had some tough months, I also told he that I lost $5k trying to wager for a bonus of $3.2k. Another clear sign of problem gambling.

All private data has been censored so please make this public

Apparently Stake.com is again not compliant with the law by withholding the data I requested above. As you can see, Stake has denied to share the data collected from me, reason is that I'm excluded.

Excluded or not, I still have the right to get all the data collected about me and even the right to know how they are using that data and who they might be sharing it with.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rights-citizens/my-rights/can-i-ask-company-organisation-send-me-my-personal-data-so-i-can-use-it-somewhere-else_en

I'm making this response because I've contacted Stake again to get my data, after being aware of my rights, but they are ignoring my request.

I need this data because I will reach out to a couple of companies that specialises in training casino staff in responsible gambling, they are professionals and will definitely know if the data the casino had would show if I had the slightest signs of gambling addiction when I requested to get self-excluded.

Hi d4n13n,

thank you for sharing all the information. I looked at the screenshots, but I cannot see any mention of having a gambling problem. Please, could you confirm that you only mentioned gambling addiction 23rd of September, as the casino team has stated?

I never said "gambling addiction" the 23rd of September. Also, please show me any place in their terms of service or self-exclusion policy where they even mentions the word "addiction".

But I can confirm that I may first have used the word "addiction" the 23rd of September.

Just to be clear - you don't think I showed the sligthest signs of gambling addiction or problem gambling in all my conversations and 10 plus self-exclusions request to Stake Casino?

And please don't ignore all the other factors as well, my self-exclusion button was disabled on their website, the staff lying about their authority, and all the breaches to my GDPR rights.

And here are some curacao license rules that have been breach!

3.8. The Operator is required to have in place and maintain proper measures to help prevent player addiction and allow Self-Exclusion to players who access the Websites.

3.13. The Operator is obliged to report in the RGR, the number of (1) End Users that have been excluded; (2) End Users that are being considered for exclusion, and (3) End Users that have applied for Self-Exclusion.

Article 4 - Principles of Data Protection

4.1. The Operator shall always comply with the privacy regulations that apply to its End Users, such as however not limited to the GDPR and shall for this purpose appoint a DPO.

Dear d4n13n,

I am very sorry about the whole situation, but I believe you are not entitled to receive the refund. Even if I look at all the evidence you provided, there has not been anything that should clearly suggest your gambling difficulties. The methods how casinos detect problem gamblers differs by the brand, and it is not something exact. It is quite standard nowadays that when the player is unhappy with something in the casino, either the support, promotions or anything else, they request permanent self-exclusion/permanent account closure.

The most important thing you can do is to inform the casino support about the gambling problem, and then they are obligated to close your account as soon as possible. When there is no mention or clear sign of a problem gambler, the player is responsible to control his gameplay, therefore the loses.

Concluding the information above, I am forced to reject your case. You have every right not to agree with my decision. Another option is to file an official complaint at the licensing authority of the casino. I will gladly help you with it, you may reach me at the email address mentioned below. Let me know if you have any questions or require further assistance.

Best regards, Jozef

jozef.k@casino.guru