Pin-Up Casino UA - Player accuses Casino Pin-Up of incorrect tax deductions.

Casino Pin -ap has been deceitfully deducting part of my withdrawals, citing a 19.5% tax. The fact of the matter is, at the time of these deductions, my withdrawals were not exceeding my deposit amounts. The chat operators explain this by saying the deposit also counts as winnings, since I was making a turnover from the deposit, which is a 100% scam!!! If you take any other licensed Ukrainian casino, such as KRAIL, winnings are amounts that exceed the deposit, and in this case, the casino rightfully deducts a 19.5% tax. However, at Casino Pin ap, it seems they follow their own rules, viewing the deposit amount as winnings too. Total scam!!! Pure fraud!!! I have all the transactions of deposits as well as withdrawals where they removed the 19.5% tax. I brought up this issue on other sites licensed by KRAIL, where it was made abundantly clear to me that this is a gross violation!!! I play at Casino Cosmolot, which uses the same license and also applies the 19.5% tax, but it's only applied to the actual net winnings.

Dear matrosov033,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the general terms and conditions, and this is what I found (here):

10.15 Income in the form of a winning (prize) of a player in a casino gambling game on the Internet is subject to personal income tax and a military levy on general grounds during its accrual (payment) to the taxpayer's account in accordance with the current legislation of Ukraine:

10.15.1. Tax Code of Ukraine dated 02.12.2010 No. 2755-VI.

Taxation of income in the form of winnings and prizes, other than lottery winnings (prizes), is carried out in accordance with the general procedure established by PKU1 for incomes that are finally taxed at the time of their accrual, at the rate of 18% (paragraph 170.6.3 of article 170 of the PKU ).

The income specified in Clause 170.6 of Article 170 of the Civil Code of Ukraine is finally taxed at the time of its payment at their expense (Clause 170.6.5 of Article 170 of Civil Code of Ukraine).

The mentioned incomes are also subject to military duty taxation at the rate of 1.5% (item 161 of subsection 10 of chapter XX "Transitional provisions" of the PKU).

10.15.2. Law of Ukraine dated July 14, 2020 No. 768-IX "On state regulation of activities related to the organization and conduct of gambling."

According to Article 30, part five, payment of bets, refund of funds deposited by players for participation in casino gambling games on the Internet, and payment of winnings to players are carried out in non-cash form.

Kindly note that determining taxation protocols and deduction amounts is not within our control. If you believe there's an unfair situation, it's advisable to report it to the appropriate authorities. Have you already discussed this concern with the casino and sought guidance from any relevant authorities on this matter?

If there's any relevant communication, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru.

Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

Best regards,

Petronela

Player's additional comments:

Thank you for answering as soon as my complaint is considered. I will provide evidence that the Casino Pin-ap site is engaged in fraud. Earlier, I applied to another site with a similar complaint, but at least I understood under what circumstances tax can be calculated. So the Pin ap casino calculated tax on my deposits even if I didn’t win anything and calculated at a time when the amount of deposits was more than the withdrawal amount, I have 100% proof Ukrainian online casinos have the right to calculate tax only on winnings, winning is something that gets used the amount of deposits, so at Casino Pin ap they will fraudulently calculate from the total amount, since they believe that if I deposit from this amount, I make a turnover and therefore they also win, this is nonsense. I have already applied to kasmolot, I also play there and pay taxes, but there they will calculate only from the amount of winnings, and not like in this casino, they are engaged in dishonest activities

Look, I am now sending you a screenshot with the withdrawal of funds to the Cosmolot Casino, and you will see that the 19.5% tax has not been removed there, I will explain why because after the last withdrawal I lost more than I deposited. And I also send correspondence with the chat operator at the Kosmolot Casino where the operator clearly writes under what conditions a 19.5% tax can be withheld. Also, yesterday I talked on the phone with the manager who also told me that I just can’t calculate the tax from the deposit. The deposit is not taxed . And I can drop the correspondence with the Pin up casino, which will prove that the deposit amount is also taxed. I send files carefully, just look at them and you will understand everything that I am writing to you.

Look carefully at these two screenshots. On one conclusion 08/15/23 where it is clear that the 19.5% tax has not been written off !! But on the second screenshot there is a win where the 19.5% tax was taken into account. Why will I show you these two screenshots so that you can see that not in all cases at the Kosmolot casino, a tax of 19.5% will be calculated when withdrawing

Now I am sending you a screenshot with the operator’s correspondence at the Kosmolot casino, read what they answer under what situations the tax is calculated.

And now I’ll write to Pin ap right now on August 16, 23 and send you the correspondence with the operator at this casino

Here you are, I just finished a dialogue with the Pin up casino operator, I am sending screenshots, pay attention to the fact that the operator replied that all deposits are also won! And this is not so, they show a total tax of 19.5% which they do not have any right to calculate it. Open and see for yourself in what cases in any CRAIL licensed casino they can calculate the tax from the player. I send you screenshots

See how the Pin up casino chat operator starts to answer when you show him the output screen on Kosmolot, where it is clearly visible that not in all cases the tax is calculated! What contradicts the Pin ap operator, he indicates that the deposit is also a win, and also begins to explain such a conclusion to Kosmolot by saying that they can do what they want !!!!! STOP!! STOP!!! Any casino that operates with a state license CRAILS does not have the right to calculate what is not provided for by the law of the license issued to them. The fact of the matter is that the managers of Kosmolot and the First.ua casino have already explained to me that in the Pin up casino they do not have the right to calculate a tax on the amount of the deposit and the deposit is not considered a win!!! I ask you to check everything and give an honest rating with a detailed description of this casino

And again, I just corresponded with the Kosmolot casino operator, but they write that I'm right that winning is the amount that gets used to the deposit and that they do not have the right to calculate tax on the amount of the deposit. Here are two screenshots.

Here it is indicated that if the Pin up casino has a license issued by CRAIL, then in this case the tax applies only to the amount of winnings! That is why I am writing that they are scammers, I am still waiting for an answer from you, if necessary, I will show all the findings where it will be clear how much they illegally calculated part of my withdrawal from me, as if for a tax.

And I ask you to please skinte the link to the mail where you can send an e-mail with a complaint about the CRAILE regulator, I will still write a statement about the violation of the Casino Pin up there, the discovery of the rules of the club about the violation of the rules of the license issued by it

Thank you very much, matrosov033, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Pavel (pavel.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello, matrosov033!

Thank you for your patience. Now I will be taking care of your complaint and I hope that together we will resolve the problem.

Firstly, here is the link where the process of lodging a complaint and contacts are described: https://www.gc.gov.ua/ua/Podaty-zvernennia.html.

Secondly, I would like to invite the casino to the discussion and ask them for the clarification on how the taxation has been done and on what legal grounds player's deposits have been taxed.

Yes, you put the question correctly, they can show you the general tax of individuals of citizens of Ukraine, but they are not entitled to calculate this tax because they have no such right as a casino licensed by CRAI. They can only deduct 19.5% tax on winnings. The winning amount is the amount that exceeds the deposit amount. And they calculated it with the grossest violation.

Also, if it doesn’t bother you to read what is written on the last screenshot, and you will see an article in which it will also be indicated in which cases the casino has the right to calculate the player’s tax under what situations it is withheld, it is also written whether the casino has the right to calculate this tax, if the player was in the losing league at the time of such deducted tax.

Casino manager King told me that there are already rumors that the Pin up casino will have their license revoked, maybe that's why they are engaged in such lawlessness, counting on the fact that they have nothing to lose.

Thank for the information, matrosov033! Now, I guess, it is best to wait for the response from the casino side. Also, I would suggest to lodge a complaint with the regulator as it can be serious mistake that must be investigated by authorities.

You know, I see that some sites write so well about them that they paid more than one billion UAH in taxes for 2023, well, of course, why not pay if only about UAH 22,000 was illegally deducted from me. I can write to the Kosmolot casino right now and clarify why a 19.5% tax was not calculated during the withdrawal yesterday, and I withdrew UAH 15,000 there.

And I'll show you what they will answer now

That is, I deposited 2000 UAH and withdrew a total amount of 15,000 thousand, this is about the Kosmolot casino, I will just show you the answer in this site, also a license from CRAI and they will calculate the tax according to the law. 10 minutes I'll show you the answer right now I'll write there.

from answer

Read the answer from the casino with the same license, and as you probably understand that in two casinos that have one authority that issued a license for gambling, there can be no taxation in different ways. This is what confirms 100% that the pin up casino works with gross violations if they have the right to consider that the player can be taxed from the withdrawal amount, and as an example of this they put that they have a Ukrainian license from CRAYL but at the same time they will calculate the general tax on which the casino has no right at all

The right is for taxation at a rate of 19.5% exclusively on the amount that the player did not withdraw, namely, he won the net profit. Winning is something that increases the amount of the deposit, but they also do not hide the fact that the amount of the deposit is also winning

Yes, and that's what you would see that the account on the spacecraft casino also belongs to me. I’m throwing off the withdrawal amount where it will be indicated what I wrote about, I think you have already read or will read the answer from the Kosmolot casino why I was not charged a withdrawal tax in the amount of 15,000 UAH.

I’m still waiting for a further response from you when they answer you at the pin ap casino, I don’t even have an idea what they will answer you if they again show a possible tax for individuals, but they have nothing to do with this tax. There is income tax won.

All I sent a complaint to the authority that issued them a license. I wrote a detailed description and asked to start an investigation regarding Casino Pin up.ua

I am sure that this casino has violated the terms and conditions. How many like me?

Once again I dialed the Casino pin up hotline, the operator called me back, we talked, he clarified once again the information on taxation 19.5% called back and said that they would calculate the tax on the total withdrawal amount, on what rights and conditions they would calculate this tax , they replied that the tax is calculated on the right of the license issued by them, and they will calculate it referring to the rights of the license issued, that such conditions. Well, in principle, everything is clear to me that they nevertheless violated the rules and conditions, as well as violated the rules of the license issued to them by the authority.

Congratulations, Alexander!

We have read your arguments in this complaint and the screenshots you provided as evidence of our "illegal" activity

As for the legislation, what does it say about what is considered winning and what is done with the amount of deposits during taxation?

1. The Law of Ukraine "On State Regulation of Activities Regarding the Organization and Conduct of Gambling", Art. 1, clause 1, paragraph 8 - the answer to the question, what is "winning". Please pay attention to the wording - "amounts to be paid". It may be surprising, but there is no question that this is an exclusively "pure" gain
2. Tax Code of Ukraine as amended from 06.30.2023, Art. 170, item 6 - Taxation of winnings and prizes

Here is a screenshot with full information on the taxation of winnings and prizes. In para. 3 of this paragraph is about the size of the tax rate for payouts from the casino. According to Art. 167, item 1 is 18 + 1.5% = 19.5% - here is a screen with the size of the tax rate

As you can see, neither in the PKU nor in the Law "On State Regulation of Activities Regarding the Organization and Conduct of Gambling Games" there is no mention of the fact that interest is deducted from the amount of "net" winnings, but on the contrary, the Law says that winnings are funds, which are payable. That is, literally all funds that are subject to payment. Also, in subsection 4, clause 6, Article 170 of the Tax Code, it is said that when paying the winnings, the player's expenses for obtaining income are not taken into account. They are not excluded from taxation, that is, they are not taken into account, it does not matter how much you lost, it is the money withdrawn when receiving such winnings that is income. If we say that another casino records on its website information about the deposit upon payment, allegedly part of it is the deposit, and the other part is the winnings and the tax from it, then neither these legal regulations nor any others have any language about how the funds that were allegedly "returned" together with a part of the winnings should be taxed, and what's more, such funds come to your account FOR ONE PAYMENT, together, where no one separates them in any way during enrollment. The fact that it is written in the casino account that part for this and part for that means absolutely nothing at the tax level. The bank will not ask you for information about the taxes paid from your personal account - they will ask you for an official certificate with the amount you paid as your income (income is everything that is credited to your card) and will deal with it further. whether you paid taxes on all of your income or evaded some

Now let's analyze the practical situation. You regularly receive money from some organization on your bank card. In fact, your enrollments for the year amounted to 500,000 hryvnias. You made deposits in the amount of 250,000 hryvnias during the same period. That is, according to the interpretation of the legislation by the support specialists of another casino - you must pay tax in the amount of 250,000 hryvnias (net winnings). OK, but you had deposits for the bank in the amount of 500,000 hryvnias. You are blocked from the card with an offer to provide a certificate of income to make sure that all income is legal and has been taxed. You come to the casino for a certificate, they give it to you (in the amount of 250,000 hryvnias). You return to the bank, and the bank tells you - okay, and other income, what is it? And here already begins a long and complicated bureaucratic process with evidence that you should not have paid tax for the return of deposits. The legal side will provide the same arguments, the wording specified in the law - that there is no mention of the fact that only "net" winnings are taxed, and you will only have screenshots of correspondence with chat support specialists of a casino and a screenshot of a news article. approximately the same specialists. I don't think that such a situation will be pleasant and generally win-win for you

Summing up the conclusion under this topic, we would like to note that our position that we act within the framework of legal norms is well-founded and aimed at not creating difficulties for our clients in the future with taxation. If someone does otherwise - it does not make us illegal or violators of the law. You can ask a question in the same casino, but how exactly do they determine that the return of the deposit is a return and according to which legal norms such a "return" is taxed. We tried to do this in order to clarify such a moment for ourselves, but, unfortunately, we did not receive a constructive answer, from which we can also draw our conclusions

If you have any doubts about the taxation of your winnings - please, you can consult a tax lawyer at any time and if the lawyer provides full, legally supported, reasoned information regarding the taxation of such winnings, which is contrary to ours and confirms the taxation format that you describe, we will definitely take it into account and consider your situation individually

We hope you haven't missed any of the moments you mentioned above. If there is anything else we can discuss about this situation - let's discuss)

Lies and deception that you are a Pin up casino are now giving in this example !!! Winnings are calculated from net profit for such winnings, if there were any, you could calculate and tax such winnings. And if the player making bets earlier and was in the red on the site when withdrawing funds, all amounts of previously made deposits are taken into account and if there is a difference between such amounts that I won more than I deposited in this case, only in this case you could calculate from the withdrawal amount the tax is 19.5% and only on the amount of such a profit, and you calculated the tax simply on the amount of the withdrawal, as you answered that the amount of the deposit is also a win!!! This is a scam, you have violated the rules of the conditions of the license issued to you, well, nothing will soon fall into place !! I will achieve justice, I know and can prove that your site calculated this tax by deception. All casinos with the same license from the same regulator as you work and calculate taxes for one right without violating the law, while you are engaged in deception by appropriating part of the output to your feeds. I know perfectly well why and under what conditions tax can be withheld and in what cases the amount of a player's withdrawal can be taxable. For example, I will show you the answer from the KOSMOLOT casino !!! The conclusion was 21.08.23 in the amount of UAH 15,000 and look at my question why not a single UAH was deducted for tax from this amount, the answer is obvious !! This shows that other online casinos do not violate their license to provide gambling and lotteries. And they, unlike your site, appreciate both the players and the fact that they were given such a license to operate the gambling business. And you acted like a SCAM!!! and there is no way to correct this situation and admit that what you calculated was withholding the tax in violation, you continue to show this nonsense and thinking that you will convince me!! It won't work!! I will send letters to your site so that they would take care of you in full, your casino appropriated from 18,000 to 22,000 UAH of my personal funds, those that you did not withdraw referring to the tax for which you did not have to calculate the rights at that moment! And I will not take a single step back, and I will achieve the truth because I know that I am right! If one or another or a third casino calculates the tax according to one principle, then yours as the fourth cannot calculate the way you want it! So there is no law and it is one for all.

I’ll show you again here, you Casino pin ap, read carefully in which cases the player’s tax is withheld !!! Read! But it’s just unnecessary to write because you like to answer they say we don’t know how they calculate at another casino, they say they can calculate as they see fit, no dear, it will show how it should be and you will calculate as you want !!!

Oleksandr, in the answer above, we refer to normative and legal documents - you can also familiarize yourself with them on the official resources of the Verkhovna Rada

Can you please tell me under which laws or perhaps regulations casino winnings are not disbursable funds, but rather the amount of net winnings that is disbursable?

I read quite a few articles about how the gambling business works in Ukraine, and I also came across an article where it says that the law does not provide for what exactly is considered a win, with regards to tax, yes, everything is absolutely true that any conclusion is a win, although of course it’s a pity that bill 2713-d was still rejected, in general, I have no more complaints about your Pin up gaming club! I will ask you to close the complaint as resolved, or not justified, once again I apologize for the misunderstanding.

matrosov033, I do not consider myself a specialist on Ukrainian legislation, so I would agree with a conclusion that you and the casino have come to. Therefore, I will reject your complaint. However, you have lodged a complaint with an authority as well, so I want to ask you to keep us updated if there will be decision that is different from what we have now.

Also, if you will have any problems with any casinos in the future, feel free to contact our Complaint Resolution Center once more! We will be happy to help! I thank you for patience and understanding and wish all the best in your future endeavors!

Respectfully,

Pavel K

Casino Guru Team