King Billy Casino (Curacao) - Player’s winnings have been sent to the wrong account.

I made a withdrawal request for AUD$6400, however I had to split it into two transactions to comply with their AUD$4000 maximum withdrawal limit.

Several days later I received the $2400, but not ghe $4000; I later found out that they had deposited the funds into someone else's account.

The staff advised me to raise this issue with my bank on my own. Understandably, I am very unsatisfied with this response, the least of all problems with it being my lack of knowledge on how to explain to the bank that although this transaction occurred between two entities unknown to me, I am the rightful owner of four thousand dollars of their money...

Dear xsseeve1y,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Which payment method you have used to deposit funds into your account? Have you used more than one payment method or bank card to deposit funds into your casino account? Have you been advised who's the owner of the other account?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hello Petronela,

Thank you for your prompt reply. To answer your questions, I use one bank card only for deposits (incidentally, the bank account connected to that card is the same account I use for withdrawals). I have deposited BTC once. I have not been told who owns the other account.

Further points to

Hello Petronela,

Thank you for your prompt reply. To answer your questions, I use one bank card only for deposits (incidentally, the bank account connected to that card is the same account I use for withdrawals). I have deposited BTC once. I have not been told who owns the other account.

Further points to consider may be; this was my first withdrawal at this casino, thus a lengthy verification process preceded the request- during which my withdrawals were rejected no less than a dozen times after my documents (including the above bank account's statement) were also rejected for various minor reasons.

When attempting to query this matter with their support staff, I felt I was largely ignored, being told to wait the full seven working days it may take for the funds to arrive in my account. I was also promised emails to update me of their progress (to date I have received none), and in the end I was told to contact the bank myself to follow up on the matter.

I did exactly that today; whilst they were very limited as to what information they could offer me, I was told by my bank that in the case where a deposit was made into an account with invalid information, the funds would be returned within 3 to 4 working days. To my relief, they were able to tell me that the account I believe King Billy credited in error (1053-3779), does not exist.

Please notify me if you need any more information or documents (screenshots, ect). I would like to say thank you, right here and now, for simply looking into this matter; coincidentally, this was my area of expertise during my 20+years as a croupier & Table Games manager in Australia. Settling disputes is never easy, but it means a lot when someone takes the time to listen.

Cheers😉 Seth

Thank you very much, xsseeve1y, for your reply and kind words. Could you please advise how many days ago was the withdrawal processed?

Hi Petronela,

The withdrawal for the $4000 that was (finally) approved after completing the verification process is dated 30th November '22 @ 19:13; however the first of twelve rejected attempts (including the $2400 amount) started 29th November '22 @ 11:14. This is to point out how many times I entered my own bank account details on their site... or rather, due to predictive text input; how many times my phone did.

Sorry xsseeve1y, just to make sure the withdrawal is still pending as approved inside your account since the 30th of November?

Yes, in my transaction history the withdrawal's status is 'approved'. I was able to procure the transaction receipt recently; all of the information is correct save for the last three digits of my account number.

Thank you very much, xsseeve1y, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Tomas (tomas.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Thank you Petronela! As an update, I did speak to the bank & they were quite helpful- they found the transaction on the 'other guys' account and did what they could to put a hold on the funds; they then instructed me to tell them (King Billy, or the 'depositor' of the funds) to get in contact with the bank so they can do their part in order to get the money returned.

I can almost see the light from inside this tunnel...

Cheers😉 Seth

Hi xsseeve1y,

I've just reviewed your case and am very sorry that you came across such an issue. In order to help you resolve the problem, I will contact the casino.

I'd like to invite King Billy Casino to join this conversation and participate in the investigation. As the player advised, could you please get in contact with the player's bank in order to get the funds returned and then send them again to the correct bank account of the player?

Please let us know what can be done. Thank you very much.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear xsseeve1y,

We are sorry for the current situation and apologize for the inconvenience!

The problem with the transaction was caused by an incorrect entry of the account number.

However, our platform provider has begun the process of resolving this issue. The payment provider is investigating the problem.

Unfortunately, we cannot predict when this issue will be resolved but we will do our best.

The King Billy Team

Dear King Billy Casino, thank you for providing the information.

I will now extend the timer for an additional 7 days. Please keep us updated on any developments.

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Tomas,

We are currently awaiting new information from the payment provider.

Thank you.

The King Billy Team

Thank you, King Billy Casino, for updating the situation.

Please let us know about the statement of the payment provider once you have new information.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear 'The King Billy Team',

Thank you for 'joining this conversation'. I won't even take offence with you not wanting to have one with only me; I am just delighted to finally be here with you.

Although, I may have spoken too soon; the pace of this piece seems to have, well, 'died in the ass' as soon as you stepped in..? May I assume you are eagerly collecting this 'new information', and will have it ready to present to class today..?

That will be super awesome, mate! I really don't think you would be dragging your feet on this issue, seeing as I notified your support staff of this a month ago, back when there was a really good chance of having the funds returned without fuss and promptly placed in my account. Let me tell you; it was NOT fun going through the Christmas & New Year period with a $4K hole in your pocket.

So... thanks for that.

Seth

Dear Seth,

Thank you for your reply. 

We are very sorry about this situation. But we would like to mention that this issue was caused by you entering the wrong account number during the withdrawal process.

It is not entirely correct to blame us for this problem and for delaying the resolution time. It depends on many factors: your bank, platform provider, payment provider, etc. We can only partially influence it.

We cannot collect new information and write it in a day or two (as you assumed) if we don’t have it

We hope that this problem will be solved ASAP. 

The King Billy Team

Dear 'The King Billy Team',

Thank you for... addressing me by my first name. No offence to Tomas or Petronella, but every time you call me 'xsseeve1y' I feel like an extra on the set of the Matrix...

Yes; it is not 'entirely correct' to blame you for this situation. If you familiarised yourself with the conversations between myself and your support staff, you'd know that I wasn't concerned with blaming anyone at all. Sh#t happens; people make mistakes, and at that point I was (and still am) fairly certain it wasn't me who fudged it.

You, 'The King Billy Team' (...is that short for something..?) seem intent on pointing

your finger at anyone but yourself (...my bank, your payment provider, platform provider..?), so I will gladly stand up and point my finger back at you. Because;

After going through my verification documents with a fine-toothed comb you STILL approved a maximum payout to a new customer with conflicting bank account details;

Your support staff dismissed me when I approached them with this problem, at a time when resolution would have been simple;

After figuring out the problem on your own weeks later, you 'advised' me to call my bank on my own to sort it out, unassisted;

After many promises of updates via email, I am still to receive any correspondence from you, and now;

You are here only because Casino Guru was kind enough to listen to my complaint and act on my behalf.

So yes; it may not be 'entirely correct' to blame you for this situation. I'll own my possible error here; it was most likely ME who entered the wrong account number, I will concede to that. But you, 'The King Billy Team', had every opportunity to resolve this issue, with myself only, quickly and peacefully.

Sincerely, Seth B***

...p.s; there's no real point in 'hoping' things will get solved ASAP; just make that bloody phone call to the bank. Easy, yes?

Dear Seth,

We would like to ask you to show more respect. We are not hiding, we are not refusing help. We are trying to solve this problem. Believe us, if we had had an opportunity to resolve this issue in several minutes, we would have done it. We are not happy too. It is illogical to drag out time. We did not get any benefit from this.

It seems that you do not understand the whole situation. It is a really complicated process that involves a lot of people, if only because it is a bank transfer between different banks from different countries. Neither our live chat nor we had a simple and quick solution to this problem and the ability to send money in a day.

In your last comment, you wrote that we had approved a maximum payout to a new customer with conflicting bank account details. However, the withdrawal amount is specified by the player. Also, one player can have many bank accounts even in one bank. The main thing for us is the account holder. These data must match those specified in the account.

In addition, we were not pointing fingers at anyone, these were just the facts.

Could we solve this problem on our own? - No

Are many people involved in this process? - Yes

Does this process take a long time? - Yes

Did you make a mistake in the account number during the withdrawal process? - Yes

Tomas, we would like to point out that we have found the solution, the money will be refunded and then sent to the player. We have already contacted the player via email. 

The King Billy Team

Dear King Billy Casino,

Thank you for participating in the resolution of this issue. We appreciate it.

Could you please update us once you have refunded the player? So we can close this complaint to the satisfaction of all parties.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Tomas,

Of course, we will write here as soon as we send the money to the player. 

The King Billy Team

Dear King Billy Casino,

Could you please update us on the situation? What is the current status of the player's withdrawal?

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Tomas,

We are waiting for information from the payment provider.

The King Billy Team

Dear Seth,

We are still waiting for information from the payment provider. You do not need to contact our live chat and ask about the time frame. They do not have that information.

You will be informed when we receive new information.

The King Billy Team

Dear 'The King Billy Team ',

Whom to I need to contact to get that information, then?

I understand if you are busy with your day-to-day workload, but if you point me in the right direction, I will be more than happy to make enquiries as to why it has taken over a month for your payment provider to come up with this information.

Seth B***

Dear all,

I appreciate your cooperation. Hopefully, this case will be resolved soon to the satisfaction of all parties.

I will now extend the timer for an additional 7 days in order to get some more time to receive the information from the payment provider.

Thank you both.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear all,

We have received the response from the provider: "The recall has been initiated".

We will keep you updated

The King Billy Team

Dear The King Billy Team,

Thank you for the update, however I still do not know what 'the recall has been initiated' means.

You have said here that a 'solution' has been found, and I can appreciate that this is not a simple matter, but I am still here in the real world with real bills to pay and rent that is really late.

Can you elaborate on your last statement, please? It would really help.

Seth B***

Dear King Billy Casino,

Could you please provide us with more information regarding the recall process?

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear all,

We would like to remind you this is a long chain of participants: King Billy team => Platform provider => Payment provider => player's bank.

We cannot directly influence the actions of the payment provider or the bank.

The payment provider said that they were waiting for the bank's response.

Kind regards,

The King Billy Team

Thank you, King Billy Casino, for updating us on the situation.

I will now extend the timer for an additional 7 days. Please let us know of any developments.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear All;

I don't have another 7 days to wait. Considering that I notified King Billy of the error on the very day it occurred, I have been extremely patient with this entire process.

The initial interaction, dated 2nd December;

The next, dated 3rd December;

On both occasions (and many more afterwards) I was quickly placated, told that this is 'just the bank's way', and given empty promises and baseless reassurances... until that, too, stopped and I was told there was nothing they can or will do:

This was when I voiced my complaint to Casino Guru. Petronela, Tomas, you and your team are doing great work, all while being unbiased, dilligent and fair. This is what some in this business still do not understand; in order to gain trust, an organisation must be transparent in their operations and forthcoming with information.

King Billy; you were correct in saying that I '...do not understand the whole situation'. That would have been the perfect time to educate me and put my mind at rest. Instead, I was pushed aside then berated for trying to 'understand' when making enquiries..! Even when you are answering questions, you rarely divulge any 'real' information, and contrary to your claims, you have sent not one email to update me on the progress.

So, I ask you, King Billy Team; Put yourself in my shoes: a bunch of your money is missing and you have no idea where it is, how or if it's coming back, no idea what to do or who to talk to, and the only ones who do know are reluctant to tell you and whatever they are doing, it's taking a hell of a long time!

Meanwhile back in the real world the patience of those around you is running out because you're relying on your funds to come through but you don't know when, and while you may think it adequate to give vague time frames, I can assure you that landlords, real estate companies and utility providers most certainly do not agree with you.

King Billy, if you want me to 'show more respect', I suggest starting with yourself. If you had given me the respect of listening to me on Friday the 2nd of December and taken my concerns seriously, I would very much doubt any of us would be here now.

Seth B***

Dear all,

We are still waiting for new information from the payment provider.

Kind regards,

The King Billy Team

Dear all,

We have received a response from the payment provider. It is said that they have not received any response from the player's bank. We emailed the player and asked him to contact the bank and ask why they are not responding.

Kind regards,

The King Billy Team

Dear All,

Firstly, King Billy; you have not, nor have you ever, sent me an email nor have you voluntarily communicated with me about this issue at all. Ever. Never ever. No, nope, nah, nyet, nee, nu, aniyo, iie, cómo no. Hell no. So, prove me wrong or stop lying.

Secondly, I spoke to ubank today (after an hour on hold) and I was informed that your payment provider has not contacted them in regards to this issue. Ever. If you wish to dispute this, please do, as all communication with the bank is vigillantly documented. All calls, all letters, all emails.

So; neither you or your payment provider is not being honest here also/either.

I would like King Billy to respond, please.

Seth B***

Dear xsseeve1y,

Could you please double-check whether you have received an email from the casino or not?

Additionally, I would like to ask the casino to provide supporting evidence that shows that you asked the player to contact their bank via email, and also that a response was received from the payment provider.

You can send it to my email address: tomas.k@casino.guru

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear xsseeve1y,

The casino has provided evidence that they indeed sent you an email about the request to contact your bank and even proof of the payment provider's response. It seems that your bank doesn't respond to their recall request.

Could I please also ask you to provide me with evidence that shows a response from your bank where they claim that the casino's payment provider has not contacted them regarding this issue?

You can send it to my email address: tomas.k@casino.guru

Thank you.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Hello All,

Yes, I finally received a forwarded email from Daria of King Billy, originally dated 15th February '23, yesterday on the 22nd. It stated that the 'payment provider' had responded, and that the 'bank does not respond to their request for means of payment'. I was asked to contact the bank to enquire why.

Before I go further; the only thing I know about King Billy's payment provider is that they are a payment provider and they provide payments. Does this payment provider (let's call him George for now) know anything about me? More to the point; if George does know about me, did he include this information when he contacted ubank to initiate the funds recall?

Dear xsseeve1y,

I understand such cases may raise a lot of questions, but in order to effectively proceed with the investigation, could you please provide me with the evidence that I have asked you for above?

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Tomas,

Well, you kinda hit the nail on the head there.

If you head back to my first message, you'll understand why I am so frustrated here; there is literally almost nothing I can do on my part, because, from the bank's point of view, I have no connection to the transaction in question. I do not know the 'payer', it was an isolated/ irregular transaction, I have not been paid by them since, and (obviously) they do not know my account number.

After speaking to ubank again today, they are still adamant in their assertion that they have had no communication with the 'payment provider' (and of course it did not help that I did not know exactly who was paying me, either), and to divulge any more information to me would be a breach of privacy on their part. They could offer me no 'evidence' as to their position, however I was advised that, when communicating with ubank in the future, could the 'payment provider' cc myself in any emails to allow them to properly identify the people involved in future issues.

Hello All,

As an update, I received an email from Anton at King Billy yesterday, providing me with the reference number George received when dealing with ubank.

Thank you very much for this, Anton. This has finally given me a solid connection with which to deal with the bank myself.

I called them today and made some progress... I will wait until I have more information before posting my findings here, but I will say this; if it does turn out that my... 'wrath' has been misguided, King Billy, you will have my unreserved apologies without hesitation... and ubank will be on the receiving end of a proportionally larger amount of wrath.

Tomas, I will forward the emails to you.

Seth

...

Dear xsseeve1y,

I'm glad to hear that some progress was finally made. I believe that we are now on the right track.

Please keep us updated on any developments.

Thank you both for your cooperation.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear King Billy Casino,

Could you please contact the player's bank again and use the dispute number provided by the player?

Please let us know about the outcome.

Thank you very much.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Seth,

Can you share the information you received from the bank when you mentioned the ref code that our team had sent you via email?

Also, can your bank contact the payment provider directly? It is easier because they already have an email address (the payment provider has contacted your bank earlier).

Kind regards,

The King Billy Team

Dear The King Billy Team,

Yes, I can share the information I received from the bank again if you like, but in an effort to keep things simple, I'd rather not repeat myself.

Also I am not sure how me calling the bank, again, and asking them to contact George would make anything easier, either. I will remind you that, in accordance with privacy laws, a reference number and a request to have George contact them once more is all the information I could get.

If it does move things along, however, the people at ubank can be reached at

+61290700202 (int'l)

www.ubank.com.au

Seth B

Dear The King Billy Team,

I am assuming at this point that you and George have all you need to finish this issue.

I am sure you will agree that I have assisted where I could. I am not sure how much time you've spent on this, but I am currently racking up dozens of hours since December second, I have overdue bills to pay and I am at the end of my patience.

So, pretty please; LETS GET IT DONE.

Seth B

Dear King Billy Casino,

Could you please update us on the current situation? Did you try to contact the player's bank with the referred dispute number?

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear Seth,

First of all, we would like to ask you to send an official email to our casino requesting to use the dispute number and forward it to the payment provider. We cannot use information that was written only in the complaint.

Secondly, it will be great if you share the information you received from the bank when you mentioned the ref code. Did you get an answer? Why didn’t your bank respond to the payment provider? Why did your bank create a new dispute number?

Also, we would like to explain why this method, where your bank contacts the payment provider, is simpler. Your bank (1) asked you (2) to ask our team (3) to contact the platform provider (4) to contact the payment provider (5) to contact the bank (6). Whereas your bank (1) can write directly to the payment provider (2). The answer seems obvious.

Additionally, we would like to remind you that your money was sent to another bank account through no fault of ours. The casino is not responsible for incorrect data in cashout requests made by a player. This issue was caused by you entering the wrong account number during the withdrawal process. So, you do not need to write about " overdue bills to pay", "at the end of my patience", "So, pretty please; LETS GET IT DONE". It is better to push your bank and ask why they didn't respond when the payment provider tried to contact them.

Finally, a few words about this problem. Most likely, the bank account to which the money was sent exists. Otherwise, an error would occur and the money would be returned automatically. Thus, the best way is to solve this problem with your bank yourself. You can contact us if your bank needs any proof.

Dear Tomas,

We would like to draw your attention to the fact that this case does not look like a complaint. We are innocent of nothing. It sounds more like we're helping the player get their money than a complaint. So, we offer to mark this complaint as closed. Seth can contact us via email if needed.

Kind regards,

The King Billy Team

The King Billy Team,

I brought this issue here as a complaint because your support staff were both unable and unwilling to assist me. I also attempted to contact King Billy via email, several times, but I was not replied to (I suspect that I was blocked, which would explain why none of your emails reached me at that address).

This was after I tried to alert your staff of the issue before the actual transfer occurred. And, after it was clear that an error was made, King Billy turned its back on me.

I would very much have preferred to deal with just yourself, but since I couldn't contact anyone at King Billy without the assistance of Casino Guru, l would rather this complaint stay here until resolution. You are welcome to email me, though.

I obviously do not know what you are asking me; I called the bank, made sure they were aware of the situation, then gave them the reference number, was put on hold, then I was asked to contact the supplier of the reference number with the message to please contact them again.

I was not given, nor are they allowed to divulge any more information other than that.

I do not know what has been done or said outside of what information I get from this thread. The answer may indeed be obvious from where you are, but I will remind you that both you and I are completely separate individuals, vastly apart in both space and time, dealing with this one issue with different information tempered through different environments and life experiences. In short; we are all people, not mind-readers.

Finally; I would have preferred to deal with just the bank itself (I currently feel like an only child with divorced parents, honestly). However, I'll say again; I have no connection to the transaction whatsoever. To put it simply, I could be anyone calling up the bank, trying to pull a fast one. Think of privacy laws. Think of fraudulent behaviours. There was NO WAY I could have made this right on my own. And yes, maybe you could have helped me there, but you did not listen to me at all to begin with and you had no intention to even when you were aware of the problem.

So... here we are. How about we make some actual progress instead of trying to out-petty each other here.

Seth

ps...the people at ubank have told me today that George initiated another recall (...a WEEK ago) and we are now simply waiting for things to take its course.

Hmm... 'innocent of nothing', indeed...

S

Dear all,

Allow us to extend the timer as we are now deciding on the final conclusion here. We will inform you about the outcome soon.

Thank you both.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear xsseeve1y,

Upon discussion with my team and considering the whole situation, the casino is not responsible for incorrect data in cashout requests made by a player. Even though we tried our best to help you resolve the case, after two months there is still no progress and we are forced to recommend that you contact the responsible gaming authority - Antillephone N.V. (Curacao), and submit a complaint to them (certria@gaminglicences.com and/or complaints@gaminglicences.com). Before submitting the complaint, make sure you provide all the necessary information: your personal data, the casino details, your login details in the casino, the issue description, and supporting attachments if it is needed.

Anyway, you can still continue to find a resolution with the casino via email as I was advised.

Please let me know what you have decided.

Thank you both for your cooperation.

Kind regards,

Tomas

Dear xsseeve1y,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Dear all,

Unfortunately, the player has not responded to our messages and questions, and we have no choice but to reject this complaint.

Kind regards,

Tomas