iWild Casino - Player's winnings have been capped.

Hallo, ich habe mit 5 Euro bonusgeld gespielt. Die umsatzbedingungen wurden erreicht. Danach habe ich mit dem echtgeld 7300 Euro gewonnen. Diese wurden storniert mit dem Hinweis das ich nur 25 Euro auszahlen lassen kann. In den agb‘s steht nix davon das ich mit den 25 Euro echtgeld nicht weiterspielen darf.

Dear delvecio,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I checked the Bonus Terms and I found this:

„1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x5 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

Sadly, there is not much I can do to support your case at this time, especially when the casino shares all the relevant information on the website. Casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, but the casino can set the maximum cashout limit for bonuses.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if there is anything else, I could do for you in this matter, otherwise, I will be forced to reject your complaint. Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Kristina

ich Habe die bonusbedingungen gelesen, ich habe die 5 Euro bonusgeld 50 mal umgesetzt .... danach werden daraus 25 Euro echtgeld .... mit denen kann ich doch spielen und unbegrenzt gewinnen ?! Ich habe die Gewinne nicht mit bonusgeld erspielt sondern danach

Thank you for your reply, delvecio. Could you please advise which bonus you activated? If possible, post here a link to the offer you redeemed.

Do I understand correctly that after you completed the wagering requirements, your bonus winnings (€25) were transferred to your real money balance?

Additionally, if there is any relevant communication between you and the casino regarding this issue, please forward it to kristina.s@casino.guru. Thank you in advance.

Das ist der link

https://iwildcasino.eu/de/shop/money

die 5 Euro wurden 50 mal umgesetzt und das Geld in echtgeld umgewandelt. Danach hab ich bestimmt noch 5 h gespielt und es stand immer echtgeld da ich hab mir mal die Historie angeschaut da wurde das Geld erst nach 250 mal 1 Euro Einsatz umgewandelt .... habe aber zur Sicherheit von allen Einsätzen nen Screenshot gemacht

Thank you very much delvecio for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Hello delvecio.

I am sorry to hear about your problem.

Unfortunately, most of the casinos formulate the mentioned rule with the word withdrawal:

"1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x5 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

So technically, the casino wants from you to withdraw the won amount of €25 and redeposit back if you would like to play with real money.

This process shouldn't be confusing, and it must be clear that the player has bonus money and not real money on his account.

Because, in this case, it was unclear, I would like to invite a casino representative to the case:

Dear casino representative, please explain to us what happened.

Hello, dear Matej and Delvecio,

Matej, you are absolutely right.

As stated in the rules of our casino, the maximum withdrawal amount when playing with bonus funds is x5 of the bonus amount.

This means that if a player has used bonus funds, he cannot withdraw more than 25 euros, no matter how much he has on his balance even when wagering the wager.

Das ist doch gar nicht der Punkt. Wenn der Bonus freigespielt wurde sind 25 Euro echtgeld und mit denen darf man doch gewinnen so viel man will. Desweiteren sollte nach Beendigung der Bonusbedingungen dies auch in der Historie nachzuvollziehen sein .... dies ist in Ihrem Kasino nicht der Fall

Dear casino representative, could you please send me Delvecio's game log? (matej@casino.guru)

As I explained before, in cases with no deposit bonuses where the wagering bonus funds are transferred to a real money account, it must be clear that it is necessary to make a withdrawal to finalize the bonus. Otherwise, players may be misled that the balance on their account is already a real money balance without any restrictions.

Dear Matej, could you please formulate your request more clearly? What is the purpose of the player's game logs?

We do not really understand your doubts in this matter.

The rules of our casino clearly state "the maximum withdrawal amount from the bonus is x5 of the bonus amount".

This means that the player can cash out and withdraw MAXIMUM x5 of the received bonus, and the rest of the funds will be automatically debited by our financial department, which happened in this case.

Das stimmt so nicht. Ich habe den Bonus 50 mal umgesetzt danach wurde das Bonusgeld in echtgeld umgewandelt. Dann sollte im Normalfall nur noch der Auszahlbare Betrag auf dem Konto erscheinen. Mit diesem Geld kann doch weitergespielt und gewonnen werden?!

In der Historie steht wieder was ganz anderes da wurde das Bonusguthaben erst nach 300x 1 euro Einsatz umgewandelt.

Ich habe nach der Umwandlung noch 6h gespielt und am nächsten Tag habt’s ihr dann mein Konto gesperrt und die Gewinne storniert.

All actions of the casino were absolutely correct and 100% consistent with our rules.

We have left on your account the amount that you have the opportunity to withdraw by playing with bonus funds.

... und genau das stimmt nicht. Ich Spiele schon seit einigen Jahren und kann sehr wohl unterscheiden was Korrekt ist und was nicht. Außerdem haben Sie die Frage nicht beantwortet. Ist nach Beendigung bzw Erfüllung der Bonusregeln ein weiterspielen mit dem Echtgeld möglich ?! Oder ist zwingend eine Abhebung von Nöten ?

Dear player,

We respect your gaming experience very much, but we set the rules in our casino, not you, and by playing with us, you agree to them and confirm that you have read them.

As for your question, we cannot forbid you to play with the balance that you have left after the release of the bonus, but the maximum withdrawal from bonus funds in our casino is limited to x5 of the bonus amount, which is clearly stated in the rules of our casino and in no way cannot be perceived by another way.

Dies beantwortet in keiner Weise die Frage. Ich bleibe dabei das Geld wurde zu Unrecht einbehalten. Diese Bonusbedingungen gibt es in vielen Casinos und ich habe es noch nie erlebt das nach erreichen der Bonusbedingungen das Echtgeld abgehoben werden musste um es zu benutzen. Das ist in meinen Augen nicht in ihren agb’s so verankert und wurde vom Casino willkürlich gemacht um den Gewinn nich auszahlen zu müssen.

Ich übergebe wieder an Casino Guru 🙂

This answer fully answers all questions.

We can't talk about any other casinos.

We are now talking about our casino and its rules.

In your case, the actions of the casino are fully consistent with its rules.

And here there can be no other opinions.

You have not reached the bonus conditions.

This is not about the wager, or about the release of the bonus.

We are talking about the MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF WITHDRAWAL FROM BONUS FUNDS.

This amount is x5 of the bonus amount.

Accordingly, you CANNOT withdraw more than 25 euros, regardless of how much money you have left in your account as a result of the release of the bonus, or the subsequent game.

Everything here is clear and understandable, and we follow strictly according to the established rules that you agreed with when registering.

.... ich überlass das jetzt mal dem Moderator. Ich les nix davon das ich das Geld abgeben muss um es benutzen zu können.

There is no need to write anything about this fact, because all questions related to this are regulated by one phrase - the maximum withdrawal amount when playing with bonus funds is x5 of the bonus amount.

Everything is clear and understandable here, these rules have been working for a very long time, and please don’t invent something that doesn’t exist.

Dear delvecio and iWildcasino.

I understand completely that the rules say the maximum what you can withdraw.

The problem here is that if the casino cuts the winnings and converts the money to a real balance after the wagering is completed, players may feel that the bonus was converted and the money is now real money without the necessity of withdrawal. 

I am asking, did you let the player know that he needed to withdraw this money after you converted them to a real balance? Email, pop-up message or something like that? 

Otherwise, I understand that he feels now cheated, and it is nice that it is written somewhere in your terms but who spends hours reading all the terms?

The bonus would be capped and converted into real money in an ideal world. And that's it. This is how it works in many online casinos; however, many also use the rule with the word: withdrawal instead of win. Then we must solve complaints because the players didn't know or simply oversight the necessity of making a withdrawal.

My best advice is to inform players after converting the bonus by the in-game message that now they need to make a withdrawal, and if they don't and decide to play, the winnings will be voided. Or an even better solution is to convert the bonus to real money without withdrawing it.

If you keep the rule and system as it is, you will receive more complaints like this in the future. For us, it is essential to recommend casinos where players can feel safe, and the system does not allow them to make a wrong move or end up in situations like this.

That's why I need to know if you let delvecio know that he must make a withdrawal after the bonus conversion. That's all.

Nixdergleichen haben sie getan .... Konto gesperrt und erst auf Nachfrage informiert... Meiner Meinung nach nicht zu empfehlen

Hello Matej, you are absolutely right, the player needs to withdraw funds in order to fulfill the conditions of the bonus. This is written in our rules, and by adding this item to the rules, we cannot force the player to read them all, but when registering on our project, he clicks the checkmark, which means that he is familiar with the rules.

It's like buying a non-refundable plane ticket and then trying to get it back, claiming he doesn't have time to read the terms of the purchase.

At the moment, our technical team does not have the ability to implement instant informing the players.

But we will definitely try to do this in the near future, most likely through emails.

Ich habe mir

doe Bonusbedingungen nochmals durchgelesen ich habe die Passage nicht gefunden ... wo geschrieben steht das ich das Geld abheben muss ... wo bitte steht das

Hello delvecio.

It is this rule:

"1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x5 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

While technically, the casino has the right, converting the bonus amount into a real balance after wagering in this situation might be very confusing. I would definitely recommend not converting the balance automatically but doing it manually when the player submits a withdrawal request. Or at least automatically send an email to each player who converts the no-deposit bonus. That email should contain information that withdrawal is now necessary and that all subsequent winnings are under the max withdrawal rule of the bonus until the withdrawal isn't complete.

I have some additional questions for the casino representative:

Delvecio needed to make a deposit, or could he make a withdrawal right after he converted the bonus?

Did he receive some information with instructions after he completed the wagering?

... also mal ehrlich das soll wohl ein Scherz sein.... daraus soll jemand wissen das ich auszahlen muss um die bonusregeln zu erfüllen .... ich bleibe dabei das mein Gewinn willkürlich storniert wurde ... man kann nur andere User vor diesem Kasino warnen ....

Good evening everyone! 

Please be advised that we are currently reviewing this case. We will be back soon with an answer 🙌🏻

Best regards,

iWildCasino

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Good afternoon everyone!

Sorry for the delay in responding to this problem. We, unfortunately, need more time to look into the situation thoroughly

Thank you for your understanding! 

Best regards,

iWildCasino

Thank you for the info. We will wait.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hello friends! Sorry for the delay, we will try to solve all your questions as soon as possible)

Matej, answers on your questions:

1. The player does not need to make a deposit, he can put a withdrawal request immediately after the release of the bonus 🙂

2. Of course, the player does not receive any instructions, I have never seen such a flow 🙂 but, when requesting a withdrawal, our financial service checks the player’s game history, and if it becomes necessary to correct the balance in accordance with our rules and conditions of the bonus, the player, of course, receives fully comprehensive information about this in his email.

I hope I was able to help you figure it out.

Don't be shy if you have any more questions🙂

Have a great day everyone!

Und für diese Antwort habt ihr jetzt 2 Wochen gebraucht, toll. Nochmal kurz zum Hergang , ich erfülle die Bonusbedingungen aus Bonusgeld wird echtgeld danach gewinne ich innerhalb 10 Drehs a 1Euro 2000 Euro spiele 5 h bis Ich 7500 Euro Gewinne, zahle aus und mein Gewinn wird 24 h später storniert. Konto wird gesperrt ohne Info oä. .... das soll in Ordnung , fair oder nachvollziehbar sein ....

Dear delvecio and iWildcasino.

Let's summarise the case:

1. delvecio won from a bonus
2. He managed to complete the wagering requirements
3. casino capped his winnings to €25
4. casino moved the winnings to real money balance
5. delvecio didn't withdraw the €25 but continued playing because he thought he already had real money (winnings) in his account.

If delvecio would be made a withdrawal and then redeposit this money back, he could keep his winnings (based on the terms of the casino)

If all the points are correct, I believe that despite the casino's terms, the logic is on the player's side, and the casino should change the policy to be clearer.

Either not cap the winnings until the player makes a withdrawal request or change the rule and use the word "winnings" instead of "withdrawal".

delvecio's only fault was that he didn't withdraw the winnings, and I completely understand why he thought he didn't need to do it.

In Casino.guru we believe that the relationship between the casino and the player must be clear and fair. Therefore we believe the delvecio should get paid, and the casino should change the terms or make the process of changing bonus money to real money clear, as I suggested.

Zumindest ein Vergleich wäre ne faire Angelegenheit 😀

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Dear Matej,

You mentioned logic

I ask you to show where it is in your decision?

Is the wording "maximum withdrawal size" not enough, in your opinion?

What could be more understandable?

If you want to ask me to take a step contrary to my own rules, then at least explain why I should do this?

Just because a completely clear and precise wording in a clause in the rules is no longer enough for you? Do you already propose to create some new technical tools?

If so, then I would like to know in advance about all the technical tools that you in the future will want to ask us to create, because the most clear and simple formulation of the rules is no longer enough for you ...

... ich Versuchs mal 🙂 die Max. Auszahlungsgrösse ist nicht das Problem sondern das man diese auch tätigen muss damit die Gewinne der Max. Auszahlunsgrösse nicht storniert werden ..... und das ist in eurer Formulierung nicht klar .... es ist durchaus nicht unüblich solche Regeln mit Max. Auszahlung aber das man das tatsächlich auszahlen muss hab ich noch nie erlebt.... wenn da steht echtgeld ist es eben echtgeld und kein bonusgeld Punkt

Dear iWildcasino representative,

Thank you for this opportunity to explain to you the logic of my decision.

The biggest problem that I see here is the rule itself:

"1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x5 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

This rule is well known and commonly used in casinos, however, with a bit different wording:

Maximum possible winnings amount…

Now I would like to show you two other rules:

In case that a player's total deposit amount is equal to or less than €200, the player will be limited to withdrawing up to x10 of the deposit in play. This rule will also be taken into account in a case where the Casinos sees that a player made additional deposits, specifically to surpass this rule.

This rule literally means that until you deposit at least 200, you can win only x10 of your deposit, so if you deposit a €100 and win a jackpot, then you get €1000 and bye-bye the rest of the money.

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the smallest deposit currently in play. Including purchasing in-game features including but not limited to free spins with a total bet amount of 30% or greater than the value of the deposit.

This rule is even more interesting because it affects all the players, not only the new ones.

If you deposit €1000 and make 10x €100 bet and then make one more deposit of €100 to make another €100 bet, you breach this rule, and all winnings will be voided. 

Did you ever hear about these rules?

(These rules applied to real money play.)

And now the logic:

I assume that you see how unfair these rules are. By the way, not many casinos are using them, and all have terrible reputations.

It is not a surprise that these rules are in Curacao-licensed casinos. (It is because better licenses would never allow casinos to have these rules in their terms and conditions) and another surprise, when the players seek the regulator's help, the regulator responds: sorry, these rules are in the terms, so the casino has the right to void the winnings.

In this case, your justification is that you have a rule in the terms and players needs to follow the rules.

My justification is that this rule is wrong, confusing players, and they are lured into situations where they lose the money they could withdraw because of a trap.

And now a big picture:

I assume your goal is to have a good casino, but your biggest goal is to make money. And what affects your profits most is the player base. When your terms are clear, and players feel good, your player base will grow fast and profits too. However, when you use unclear rules to avoid paying, players will complain and be unhappy. Players will be writing their stories on the internet, your casino will become well known for unclear/unfair terms, and your player base will grow slower. Eventually, your player base will only be decreasing, and the casino will be closed after some time.

Now, look at the best casinos in the industry. Do you think these casinos have unclear rules or trying to confuse players somehow? No, they know that everything must be clear for the players. And if the player accidentally does something bad (breach the max bet rule in one bet accidentally or some mistake in good faith.) These casinos would pay the player anyway because they know that this player will be loyal to them for that. If the casino finds an excuse to avoid paying, it will cost them potential players who instead choose a friendly casino. 

In this case, Delvecio didn't get any advantage when he played with the balance after the casino capped his winnings. He could keep the winnings if he withdrew the money and redeposit them.

Forcing players to make a withdrawal also makes no sense from a business perspective.

When a player gets this bonus, converts it and tries to withdraw, he must wait how many days?

If the casino converts this money into real cash (winnings instead of withdrawal in the mentioned term), the players who win from a bonus could continue playing and not wait for days.

Instead of stuck players waiting for a withdrawal, you could have players who could be potential depositors.

So, is my logic wrong?

Why do you want players to make a withdrawal after converting a bonus?

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Unfortunately, the casino didn't respond to the last message.

I am forced to close this complaint as unresolved with a status: Against Fair Gambling Codex.

Delvecio, I am sorry that we couldn't help you more. There are a lot of casinos where a situation like this is impossible. Please consider playing in a better casino. This case will have an impact on the iWild Casino's rating.

We’ve reopened this complaint at the request of iWildcasino casino. We would like to allow this case one more chance to be resolved and help both parties involved to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Dear Guru,

could you please summarize your verdict on this case?

After the dialogue with the casino via Skype, we found a solution. The casino representative will post the reply soon.

Hello dear Guru and player,

We inform you that the balance of the player's account has been replenished with the amount of 7342.42 euros, and it is available for withdrawal.

We also transferred the task to the IT department to add the functionality of notifying the user about the wagering of the bonus and the need to withdraw funds. It will be implemented in the near future.

Thank you all for your patience and help in resolving this issue.

Hallo Guru + Iwild Casino,

vielen Dank an alle Gurus die mir bei der Lösung des Problems geholfen haben. Ich hätte nie damit gerechnet das ich meine Gewinne bekommen. Danke Danke

@ Iwild Casino , auch an euch vielen Dank nicht jedes Casino lässt sich überzeugen und gibt im Sinnne des Spielers nach .... das Zeugt von Größe , ich werde weiter bei euch spielen denn euer Casino ist eigentlich toll 😉

Geld wurde gutgeschrieben alles gut

Dear delvecio,

I'm glad to hear that your issue has been resolved successfully. I will now mark the complaint as 'resolved' in our system.

Thank you for your cooperation, and please do not hesitate to contact our Complaint Resolution Center if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future. We are here to help.

Best regards,

Matej

Casino.Guru