IceBet Casino - Player’s winnings were reduced.

Dear Jusef,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found (here):

"1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from the no deposit bonus: €50 / C$70 / 500 kr / 200 zł / R$300 / ₺500.

1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x25 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

Could you please advise which exact bonus you have redeemed and played?

I would like to emphasize, that according to our Fair Gambling Codex https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#win-limits, we consider imposed win limit to be unfair and predator, only when it’s applied to a real money game, however, we accept bonus T&Cs that restrict the maximum cash out from a bonus play.

Please understand that it is nothing unusual to have maximum cash out applied to any promotional winnings.  

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Den Bonus hatte ich umgesetzt

Could you please advise which exact bonus you have redeemed and played?

200% bonus

And how much was your deposit?

5385 euro

How much have you deposited when activating the 200% bonus?

200 €

Thank you very much, Jusef, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Dear Jusef,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. I will contact the casino and see if I can help. I would like to invite IceBet Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

OK danke vielmals

Dear Jusef.

Your complaint has been reviewed in detail.

2022-01-02 - You made a deposit of 250 EUR and according to the promo for the first deposit you received a 200% bonus.

Then you, unfortunately, lost real money and started playing with the bonus balance.

2022-01-03 - You have successfully wagered the 200% bonus and as the amount of bonus balance at the time of wagering exceeded the maximum allowable amount of conversion to real funds, the amount of EUR 1500 was credited to your real balance, and the balance was automatically canceled, according to the rules of this promotion:

3.3 The maximum withdrawal amount from the received bonus:

d. When you get a 200% bonus: €1500

Details and rules for the welcome bonus can be found under "Promotion".

You were also notified about this by the KYC department when you went through the verification procedure. 

As you can see you have been successfully paid the amount of 800 EUR which you had applied for withdrawal.

All actions were performed in accordance with the received bonus. 

Please note that not all bonuses at our casino have limitations on winning. 

We will be glad to see you again!

If you have any additional questions or difficulties, please let us know I will be glad to help you.

Aber ich habe mit den 1500 Euro weiter gespielt und dann habe ich 5300 Euro gewonnen und dann würde mir wieder das Geld abgezogen

Dear Jusef,

According to the regulations of this bonus:

3.7. In the case of bonus wagering, the player has the opportunity to withdraw the amount that was at the time of wagering bonus, but not more than the maximum amount available for withdrawal under this offer.

For this reason, only the amount of 1500EUR was available to you for withdrawal which you won from the bonus balance. 

Please note that not all of our bonuses have a limit on winnings from the bonus. 

But this bonus was with the restriction unfortunately. 

Wie gesagt ich habe mit den 1500 Euro weiter gespielt und habe dann gewonnen

Das heißt doch das die 1500 jetzt nichts mehr mit dem Bonus zu tun haben

Dear Jusef.

I rechecked the information on your message. 

Once you have wagered the bonus you have continued to play for real funds.  

All your winnings were obtained from the bonus which has a limit on both winnings and withdrawals. 

This limit is imposed on the real money received from the bonus i.e. you could receive not more than 1500EUR and withdraw only this amount.

For this reason, was made repeated debiting of funds from your game account and your game balance was brought to the amount of 1500EUR strictly according to the rules of the proposal on which you have received a bonus. 

If you have any additional questions, I will be glad to help you to solve them. 

Hi all, thank you for your replies.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

Let me ask a question. How does the player know that they are still playing with bonus money? How exactly does it work when the wagering of the bonus is finished? Does the amount automatically switch to real money?

Die 11000 wurden zu 1500

Die 1500 sind doch dann Echtgeld

Dear Peter,

The player can always keep track of the wagering bonus in his personal cabinet. 

After wagering the bonus, the amount of real funds is credited to the real balance and is available for withdrawal.

Also in this case at the time of bonus wagering the player had a balance of more than EUR 1500 (maximum allowed for withdrawal of funds from this bonus) and as soon as the player won the bonus the amount of EUR 1500 was credited to his real balance and the balance was automatically deducted from his balance. 

The player was entitled to withdraw only 1,500 EUR from this bonus according to the terms of this bonus. Regardless of whether he continues to play further, the maximum amount he will be able to withdraw EUR 1,500, as he received it at the expense of wagering the bonus. 

In such cases, it was better to withdraw funds in the amount of 1500 EUR, then make a deposit again and play without restrictions, as it would be a new deposit.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

So if I understand it correctly, the only way to finish the bonus is to make a withdrawal when fully wagered? That sounds very player-unfriendly and unintuitive. Is this information at least displayed in the significant bonus terms? Was it a sticky bonus?

Dear Peter,

Our bonuses are not sticky.

The client has lost his real funds and proceeded to play on the bonus balance. After the client won the bonus, the client can withdraw 1500EUR according to the rules and conditions of the bonus, all that the player won further from the bonus when the funds were in the real account, is not available for withdrawal, but only the amount of 1500EUR.

This is specified in the rules of this bonus on the site. 

https://icebet.casino/en/promo/item/firstdepositbonus

The rules are always open to any customer.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

I understand that the maximum amount that the player could withdraw was €1500, but it doesn't say anywhere that the winnings must be withdrawn to become real money. It only says that "the player has the opportunity to withdraw..." How do players know that the funds displayed as "Saldo" (which is real money balance) are still just bonus money? I will discuss the issue internally and will get back to you.

Dear Peter,

In our casino, absolutely every player can track the degree of wagering bonus with ease. 

All details on the wagering of the bonus and the degree of wagering are displayed in the "Bonuses" in the player's profile.

The player's profile also displays the current balance of both real and bonus funds separately.

As soon as the player wagering the bonus credited to him, 

the entire amount of the bonus (if there are no limitations on the promotion, which awarded the bonus) which is in the gaming account is transferred to a real account of the player, that is turned into real money.

If there is a limitation on winning and withdrawal from the bonus received, only the amount that is set by the maximum values of the promotion will be converted into real money.

If a player is wagering a bonus with a limit on winnings, in this case, he will be able to withdraw only the amount of real money, which is set by the maximum values of the promotion.

Based on all of the above, you can understand that all players in our casino can easily:

1)Keep track of the degree of wagering bonus.

2) View the current balance of bonus / real money.

3) Easily know the maximum amount of output from the bonus - after reviewing the conditions of the action in which the bonus was awarded in the "Promotions" section.

In our casino implemented all the features for the convenience of players, we do not hide the proper information that players need to receive in the process of playing and wagering bonuses.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

Let's have a look at the arguments:

"If there is a limitation on winning and withdrawal from the bonus received, only the amount that is set by the maximum values of the promotion will be converted into real money."

- this part means that the €1500 became real money and the player should be able to use it as real money right? That means either withdraw or continue playing.

"If a player is wagering a bonus with a limit on winnings, in this case, he will be able to withdraw only the amount of real money, which is set by the maximum values of the promotion."

- in this part, the possibility to withdraw is mentioned but still, no word of the player has to make a withdrawal to finish the wagering

So basically, you say that the only way for the player to get the winnings from the bonus is to make a withdrawal. Otherwise, they would be playing with funny money. The problem is that the balance (max cashout from the bonus) shows as real money and the player (not surprisingly) thinks that it actually is real money because they finished the wagering and they can continue playing. Since there is no word of this obligatory withdrawal in the casino's T&Cs, how can a player know about this? This is nothing else but a trap for casual players.

Dear Peter,

We have no limit on winning for real money as in any self-respecting casino.

Bonuses are additional funds that are credited to clients according to the regulations of the project, and each project has its own regulations. As for any bonus, there are different conditions of wagering as well as the possibility of withdrawal. 

In this case, the player received a bonus with a restriction on withdrawal, which is clearly described in the rules of the project and these rules are not hidden from anyone. Any player can go and read them and decide whether to take the bonus or not. If the client decides to use the bonus, the wagering of the bonus is subject to the regulations. 

In this case, the client can withdraw 1500 EUR according to the conditions of the received bonus. 

The client with this bonus successfully withdrew funds to his payment method in the amount of 800EUR, although he could withdraw 1500EUR. 

If the client would have won these funds from his real deposit, he would have been able to withdraw the entire amount of winnings without difficulty, but the client played and won this amount in the bonus account, which is limited to the withdrawal of funds. 

In this case, there is no "trap", as all the details and conditions of the bonus are described in the rules and are available to absolutely all users. 

Our position remains unchanged and we act strictly within the regulations of the project. 

Dear IceBet Casino team,

This doesn't seem to lead anywhere. When the wagering of the bonus was finished, the bonus balance was €11411, €1500 was transferred to the real money balance and the rest was deleted. From this moment, the amount in the player's real money account was his real money and he should be able to do with it whatever he wants. If you want the players to make a withdrawal, give them a warning and don't let them play anymore. How should a player know that their real money balance isn't actually a real money balance and they can't continue playing? It's simply a trap for players to lose their money.

Dear Jusef,

I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with this one since the casino seems to ignore the facts and made its decision. I recommend turning to the Curacao Gaming Authority (certria@gaminglicences.com) and submit a complaint to them, but I can't guarantee a positive outcome. The complaint will become unresolved. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in rating caused by unresolved complaints could help to change the casino's approach. If the casino changes its decision, we will reopen the complaint and you will be notified by email. I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards,

Peter

We’ve reopened this complaint at the request of IceBet Casino casino. We would like to allow this case one more chance to be resolved and help both parties involved to reach a satisfactory conclusion. We received the following email from the casino:

"Dear Casino Guru Team,

We would like to inform you that we are ready to reconsider our decision regarding the complaint of the player Omayrat.

Our casino policy has been reconsidered and we are very sorry about this situation with the player Omayrat.

Please note that the Risk Department has reviewed the player's complaint and has taken all aspects of it into consideration.

In case of revision of the complaint of the player, under the rules of our project, we are ready (to credit to the gaming account/ withdraw to the account details from which were deposited to the gaming account within 10 work days) the amount of €5,400 specified in the complaint.

In the case of the payment of this amount, the player Omayrat has to confirm his agreement within 10 work days in this complaint and provide details of the payment system to which he wants to receive money.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department."

Dear Jusef,

Let us know what you think.

Hiermit bestätige ich mein Einverständnis

Dear Jusef,

We ask you to confirm the following paragraphs:

1) The payment will be in the amount of €5400 according to the complaint.

2) The payment will be made to the bank account that you used before, DE58426501******09482.

3) You agree to confirm that you will receive the payment, by providing a screenshot of your bank account, with the content of information, about the receipt of this amount in this complaint.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Jusef,

Please let me know when you receive your funds.

Ich hab stand jetzt noch nichts erhalten

Dear Jusef,

As we stated above:

We ask you to confirm the following paragraphs:

1) The payment will be in the amount of €5400 according to the complaint.

2) The payment will be made to the bank account that you used before, DE58426501******09482.

3) You agree to confirm that you will receive the payment, by providing a screenshot of your bank account, with the content of information, about the receipt of this amount in this complaint.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Ich bestätige das dies mein Bankkonto ist

Aber ich habe noch keine Zahlung erhalten

Dear Jusef,

Please confirm all the paragraphs that we have indicated above. Only after confirmation of all paragraphs, the payment will be made.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Ich bestätige alle Absätze

Dear Jusef,

We would like to inform you that your OMAYRAT account is active.

The amount mentioned in your complaint (€5400) has been successfully credited to your gaming account for your OMAYRAT account.

You can withdraw this amount to your approved DE58426501******09482 bank account according to our casino rules or you can use these funds for betting in the games.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Dear Peter,

You can see that we have completely fulfilled all obligations to the player on this complaint. We kindly ask you to reconsider your decision.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies. I will close the case as soon as Jusef confirms that he received his funds.

Ich habe das Geld auf meinem Spielerkonto erhalten nur die Auszahlung auf meinem Girokonto dauert leider sehr lange und geht nur in 400 Euro Schritten und insgesamt nur 3 Mal

Hi Jusef,

I'm glad to hear that your funds were added to your balance. We are aware of the low withdrawal limit in the casino. Unfortunately, it will take a while to withdraw all your winnings. I will now mark the complaint as 'resolved' in our system. Should there be any problem with the withdrawals, please let me know (peter.m@casino.guru). Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. Don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Best regards,

Peter