Black Label Casino - Player’s winnings have been capped.

Buongiorno,

il giorno 15/01/2022 ho chiesto un prelievo di 950 euro. Vedendo che tardavano a confermare il prelievo, dopo due giorni l’ho annullato per giocarne una parte e riprelevare il restante. Il problema è che una volta annullato il prelievo non mi permetteva più di riprelevarlo, come fosse denaro bonus che aveva bisogno di essere giocato. Quindi ho giocato tutto l’importo e per fortuna sono riuscito a recuperare quello che era il mio prelievo iniziale e qualcosina in più.

Il giorno 18/01/2022 dopo aver giocato abbastanza sono riuscito ad avviare un prelievo di 1050 euro.

Dopo alcuni giorni in cui il mio prelievo rimaneva in sospeso e loro mi dicevano di pazientare, oggi 25/01 mi è arrivata una mail in cui confermano il prelievo ma di 500 euro e non di 1050. Inoltre la restante parte che non mi è stata accreditata, è stata cancellata dal mio profilo.

La loro motivazione è che io avrei vinto quei soldi con 50 euro in "punti comp" (dei punti accumulati che se convertiti diventano euro giocabili) e quindi potevano pagarmi massimo 10 volte l’importo dei punti comp. Il problema è che però io quei soldi li ho vinti con miei soldi reali del prelievo iniziale annullato, il quale pure avevo vinto con miei soldi reali.

Con i loro bonus non ho mai vinto niente che potessi prelevare, mentre i "punti comp" li ho utilizzati solo dopo aver fatto il prelievo per evitare di avere problemi di questo tipo, entrambe le volte che l’ho richiesto.

Trovo il loro comportamento scorretto e fraudolento, sono dei ladri! Dopo aver già perso una cifra ben più alta del prelievo, me ne viene rubata pure una parte ingiustamente.

Non essendo principiante e conoscendo le clausole dei bonus, sono sicuro di quello che ho giocato e come l’ho giocato e vinto.

Ho già letto sul vostro sito recensioni negative sul casino ma purtroppo troppo tardi. Per questo già il fatto che mi abbiano dato almeno la metà è qualcosa.

Fatico però ad accettarlo, perché ci ho messo tanti soldi e per lo meno vorrei che mi venisse pagato il prelievo intero.

È un casino che sconsiglio a tutti e che ovviamente non userò più.

Spero si possa fare qualcosa per avere la restante parte del mio prelievo.

Dear Florjan,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Could you confirm, that you have accumulated winnings without any active bonus and clarify how much was your last and lifetime cumulative deposits? Ideally, you could forward your "cashier" and "bonus" histories to petronela.k@casino.guru. 

If I understood correctly your winnings shouldn't have been reduced based on the rule regarding maximum cashout from bonus play since you haven't redeemed any promotional offers. However, I found another rule that could be used to justify the reduction of your winnings (here):

"Withdrawals 

...

If a player's accumulated deposit amount does not exceed €200, player will be entitled only up to X10 last deposit. This maximum payout will be enforced also in cases where the player made additional deposits which were deemed at the sole discretion of the Casino to have been made in order to exceed the €200 accumulated deposit amount."

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Thank you very much, Florjan, for providing all the necessary information via email. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hi Florjan,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. I will contact the casino and see if I can help. I would like to invite Black Label Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear All,

Thank you for bringing this matter,

We have checked the gameplay and found the source of the withdrawal request of 1050 EUR made on 18-Jan-2022 was a Real Cash Bonus of 33 EUR.

Please be advised, as per casino Bonus Terms and Conditions.

20. Real Cash Bonus – carries a wagering requirement of 0X. Players cannot withdraw the real cash bonus without using it in placing any bets. All Real Cash bonus cash out are limited to x10 of the smallest cashback bonus credited to the player.

Meaning, the player is eligible to withdraw 330 EUR.

The casino decided to pay 500.00 EUR as a goodwill gesture which has already been paid to Florjan’s account.

We believe the casino here went above and beyond the limitations as defined by its terms and conditions to make a fair and competitive payout.

We hope it was clear.

Caro Black Label Casino,

vorrei tanto che quello che dite fosse vero ma purtroppo non lo è.

È il solito copione che avete usato anche con altri giocatori, cambiate le cose per poi fingere di dare anche più soldi facendo la parte di quelli bravi. Ma quale casino ti regala i soldi ? Nessuno!

La fonte del prelievo di 1050 euro era un prelievo precedente che ho annullato, il quale pure era stato vinto con soldi MIEI REALI.

Non sono un principiante e so che i bonus hanno clausole, per quello so bene quando sto giocando con soldi bonus oppure soldi reali. Infatti i comp points sono sicuro di averli usati dopo aver effettuato il prelievo.

Vi chiederei delle prove ma so che manipolereste anche quelle. Lo dimostra il fatto che nello storico delle transazioni non si può vedere quando sono stati usati i bonus.

Il vostro è un furto chiaro e proprio. Ho fatto il prelievo di 1050 e avete pretesto/rubato 550 euro, come se non bastassero quelli che ho già perso giocando nel vostro casino. Fingendo tra l’altro dj avermene dati più di quelli che mi spettavano.

Siete chiaramente un Casino fraudolento e poco affidabile.

Io non voglio vostri finti regali, voglio solo i miei soldi che mi spettano. Quindi me ne mancano 550,00 euro.

Se non fossi così sicuro prenderei il vostro regalo e me ne starei zitto, purtroppo non è così.

Spero abbiate un minimo di coscienza e facciate quello che è giusto, cioè darmi i miei soldi.

Se così non fosse, mi auguro che ci facciano chiudere il casino cosi altra gente non finirebbe per farsi rubare soldi.

Florjan

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Black Label Casino,

Could you please forward the evidence (game history with marked bonuses and game logs) supporting your claims to my email address (peter.m@casino.guru)? Thank you.

Dear Black Label Casino,

I looked at the game history you provided. Let me sum it up here. Florjan received the aforementioned comp points of €33 on the 14.1. 2022 6:15. He played with the bonus and managed to win about €1000 and made a withdrawal of €950 that was later canceled. Later he played with the amount and made a new withdrawal of €1050. Now, if I understand that correctly, your claim here is based on the 10x win limit for the Real Cash Bonus offer, correct? My question is, how does a player know that the wagering of the bonus is over or in this case that they reached the 10x limit? Doesn't the maximum bonus winnings go automatically to the real balance?

Dear Peter,

Hope you are doing well.

Please note that Florjan's gains are the result of the Real Cash Bonus of 33 Euro (referenced 421088) that was obtained on 2022-01-14.

Regarding your queries concerning the real cash bonus and the compoints, please be aware that such bonuses do not have any wagering requirements associated with them. Furthermore, these types of bonuses appear in the form of real money on the player's account, providing them the option to use these funds on real cash games.

However, the RealCash bonus is limited to an x10 withdrawal limit as stipulated in the T&C previously mentioned. Therefore, the maximum amount he may withdraw from that source is 330 euros (33 x 10).

Despite the maximum withdrawal regulations, the casino has decided to pay 500 euros as a goodwill gesture.

The Casino system does not prevent the player from playing more than he can withdraw, however, the maximum amounts will be adjusted after the withdrawal request is submitted, based on the terms and conditions.

In conclusion, the casino acted in accordance with its T&C when the rest of Florjan's winnings were removed.

We believe the information above provides you with clear, sufficient information. However, please let us know if there is still confusion about the source of winning or any of the limitations in play so we can clarify further.

All the best,

BlackLabel Casino

Dear Black Label Casino,

I understand the terms of the bonus, but how does the player know that the bonus is finished? If it goes directly to the real money balance, is the max limit automatically applied? If so, it wouldn't be possible to break any max win rule. However, if it's not applied automatically, how do the players know that the bonus is finished and the balance is their real money? My point is if the bonus shows as real money and you let the player continue playing and don't apply the max win limit automatically, they can win €50000 and at some point, you just say: sorry max win is €330, so how does it work?

Hi Peter,

The Real Cash bonus is shown identical to Real Cash in the player's balance. It does not have wagering attached to it nor, it's limited to specific games.

There are no automatic systems to apply the max win rule during the gameplay. Likewise, there are no automatic systems to cap the balance while the players are playing. In practice, it's possible to accumulate more funds than what is allowed by maximum winning.

Upon every withdrawal request, the player’s game history is manually checked against the terms and conditions. If needed, the winnings will be then adjusted to the maximum winnings, according to the bonus terms and conditions.

In this case, as the game history shows Florian managed to accumulate more funds than what the maximum winning would allow during his gameplay. After the review of his withdrawal request of €1050, the balance was adjusted to the maximum amount which was allowed to cashout from this bonus.

As mentioned before, in this specific case, Casino decided to pay Florian more than the maximum winnings.

You have also asked "how do the players know that the bonus is finished and the balance is their real money?" - in this case, this would not be relevant. With the RealCash bonus, essentially the player can withdraw at any point with consideration of the applicable terms such as maximum winnings(10x of the bonus amount).

I hope this helps to answer your concerns.

Kind regards,

BlackLabel Casino 

Dear Black Label Casino,

Sorry to say that, but that's a terrible bonus system. The players don't even know if they play with a bonus and at what point will their winnings be reduced due to a max win rule. We are strongly convinced that the player should get paid in full and I suggest changing the bonus system because it's just one big chaos and it's extremely user-unfriendly.

Dear Peter,

You have based your opinion on the fact that the players don't know that "if they play with a bonus" and "at what point will their winnings be reduced due to a max win rule" both of which are untrue.

About your first point, we think it is definitely not difficult for the player that he is playing with a bonus - since:

• The bonus was added ~ 3 hours after the last deposit of the player
• The player had zero balance when the bonus was added
• When the bonus was added - an email was sent to the player informing that 33 Euro bonus was added to his balance.
• The players can check their balance and financial history in their accounts section.

It is impossible for the player to think that he is playing with a deposit given the above circumstances.

Regarding your second point, we believe that the Bonus Terms and Conditions is explicit and clear about the terms and conditions about Real Cash bonus. It is unreasonable to punish the casino for reviewing withdrawals 

Second, it is simply unfair to ask the casino for a full payout where the source of winning is only a no deposit bonus.

Having a maximum winning amount for no deposit bonuses is a widely accepted industry standard, even Casino Guru's introductory page to no deposit bonuses acknowledges the "maximum credit amount" of the no deposit bonuses as a " basic condition". 

Given the fact that the player won only from a no deposit bonus, the casino is under no obligation to pay anything more than what its Terms and Conditions specified.

We would like to again emphasize that the casino went beyond and above and paid 500 euros for the mentioned withdrawal.

In light of the above, the casino’s decision here is final.  We would like to encourage you to reassess your position given the entirety of the circumstances and acknowledge the casino’s right to confiscate

Dear Black Label Casino,

That still doesn't answer the question "At what point will their winnings be reduced due to a max win rule?" How long does it take for the €330 in the real money balance to become "real" €330 in the real money balance? Why wait for the player to win €1050 to reduce it to €330? You could have waited for him to win 50k and then apply the max win with the current system. As soon as the player reached €330, the bonus should automatically become real money and the player should be able to do with it whatever he pleases - continue playing or withdraw.

Dear Florjan,

I'm afraid I can't convince the casino to pay you your winnings in full. The complaint will become unresolved. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in rating caused by unresolved complaints could help to change the casino's approach.  Since the casino has no valid license and doesn't refer to any ADR service, there is no gaming authority to turn to. I can only recommend you choose casinos by their reviews and ratings in the future to avoid situations like this. I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards,

Peter