The player from Germany had deposited with a welcome bonus and canceled the bonus after confirming his balance, only to have his €3,000 withdrawal denied due to unmet bonus wagering requirements. The casino had cited a clause not present in either the German or English terms and conditions. The Complaints Team had acknowledged the player's concerns about a potential display error regarding real money winnings and had emphasized that the casino acted correctly by refunding the initial deposit. The case was closed with the hope that the casino would address the display issue to prevent future misunderstandings.
Winsane Casino - Player’s withdrawal has been denied.
Amount: €3,000
Winsane Casino
Safety Index:HighSafety Index
Casinos with a High Safety Index usually have a large number of visitors and a small number of unresolved complaints. Players can expect to play safely and be treated well in casinos with a High Safety Index.
Case closed
Our verdict
Other
REJECTED
Case summary
2 months ago
Public
Public
5 months ago
Translation
I deposited using the welcome bonus and won some money from the real money portion. The terms and conditions state that real money is played first, so I checked my balance at the cashier. I noticed it listed €3,700 as real money and €1,000 as bonus money, making a total balance of €4,700. This is typical for a non-sticky bonus. Consequently, I canceled the bonus, leaving me with €3,700 in real money, from which I withdrew €3,000. However, today my withdrawal request was denied because I supposedly failed to meet the bonus wagering requirements, and according to clause 23.17 of the terms and conditions, all winnings are counted as bonus money. However, neither the German nor the English version of the terms and conditions contains such a clause – they both go up to only clause 23.14. I feel cheated out of my winnings and request your assistance.
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
5 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely.
- Did you activate the bonus or was it credited automatically upon deposit?
- Could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here.
I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.
Best regards,
Kristina
Public
Public
5 months ago
Translation
Hello Kristina,
No, the bonus did not have to be activated but was automatically credited after the deposit. The casino also offers sports bets which I could have placed with the real money portion. I have only known it so far that if it is explicitly stated that real money is used first, this also produces real money. That is how the cashier saw it and my winnings were shown as real money and not as bonus money.
When the bonus was canceled, only the €1,000 was mentioned and after the cancellation the real money remained unchanged and could therefore be paid out. I find this very dubious and unfair because I also generate real money winnings with real money. Otherwise there is no need to point out that real money is wagered first.
I also tried to withdraw €1,000 3 times at the beginning, but after the maximum time of 72 hours I received a message saying that I had exceeded the daily withdrawal limit and the withdrawal was cancelled. There was no mention of me violating the bonus regulations.
I have sent you an email with mail traffic.
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
5 months ago
Thank you for your reply, andyohmsen. Could you please clarify if you currently have any remaining balance in your casino account? If yes, how much?
Public
Public
5 months ago
Translation
Hello Kristina, after the rejected withdrawal there was 1000 on it... I was able to withdraw 700 of it so far. 300 are still on it
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
5 months ago
By the way, I went through the General T&Cs and I found the term:
24.17. The Player can request a withdrawal of their deposit before meeting the requirements for bonus wagering. In this case, the amount of the bonus and winnings are void, and the remaining funds, if any, are paid to the player.
How much money did you deposit in order to activate the bonus? Was there any warning or notification when you tried to cancel the bonus? Could you please clarify if you managed to complete any wagering requirements before canceling the bonus?
Public
Public
5 months ago
Translation
I deposited €1000, the bonus was credited automatically and in the cash register a distinction was made between €1000 real money and €1000 bonus money. Since I won before the real money expired, it was also shown as real money in the cash register and the bonus amount remained at €1000. When I canceled the bonus, only the bonus amount was mentioned and after the cancellation the real money remained the same and the bonus amount was shown as 0. There was no indication when I made a withdrawal either, but I could request it. There was also no indication that funds were blocked due to bonus conditions. I did not have to fulfill bonus conditions for the real money because the bonus amount was deducted.
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
4 months ago
Could you please post here a link to the bonus you activated? Also, did you choose this bonus when depositing?
Public
Public
4 months ago
Translation
Hello Kristina, I have reported a total of 3 complaints to you with the numbers 113461 + 113467 + 113468. The problem is the same in all 3 cases. Real money winnings were displayed and attempts were made to pay out. Whether it is actually enough to win a complaint is unclear. But if real money was displayed and not as money tied to a bonus, I think that is incorrect. I have not selected a bonus, but I see that the bonus is selected for a 2nd deposit and you would have to specifically decline the bonus. After the deposit, the money was doubled and after the first win I always check whether the winnings are real money or bonus money. In this case it was real money and I carried on playing and won under that assumption. Based on my experience, I have deposited at 4 more casinos in the franchise. I assumed I had won and so I had a good feeling about the franchise. With the other two complaints, I won a total of almost €8,000 with deposits of 3x €1,000 plus 2x €1,000 at Cashwin + Sushi. So instead of being 3,000 in the black, I am now 2,000 in the red. I would not have deposited at other casinos if I had known that real money winnings would be deducted and I find it extremely unfair to the player if the clause is correct. They should then show this as bonus-related winnings, as is normal with other sticky bonuses at other casinos. I hope that you can do something for me and that the winnings will be paid out as a gesture of goodwill or fairness, or at least that I do not lose money from the franchise.
As I mentioned, I didn't specifically select the bonus, but I wanted the bonus because I assumed it was non-sticky. If it had been shown as a bonus-linked bonus, I wouldn't have deleted the bonus beforehand, but would of course have tried to meet the wagering requirements. And therefore I wouldn't have deposited in the other 4 franchise casinos.
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
4 months ago
Hello andyohmsen,
I am sorry to hear about your troubles.
I would like to invite the casino representative into the case:
Dear casino representative, could you please check the case and explain to us what happened?
Public
Public
4 months ago
We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.
Public
Public
4 months ago
Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention.
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience you experienced with the withdrawal process. We understand the frustration caused by the delay, and we appreciate your patience.
We are looking into it, and we will try to come with an answer/ solution as soon as possible.
Best regards,
Winsane Support Team
Public
Public
4 months ago
Dear Thomas,
Thank you for reaching out to us regarding this matter.
Upon reviewing your account, we noted that you made a deposit of €1,000, which activated the First Deposit Bonus. This bonus provides a 100% match of your initial deposit plus 50 Free Spins for the game Bonanza Billion.
According to our records, you wagered €5,875.00 out of the required €70,000.00 (the wagering requirement is 35 times the combined amount of your deposit and bonus). At Winsane , unless specified otherwise, the wagering requirement is 35 times the initial deposit and bonus amount before funds can be withdrawn.
Unfortunately, you chose to cancel the bonus before fulfilling the wagering requirements. Our Terms and Conditions clearly state that canceling a bonus voids the entire bonus balance and any winnings accumulated during the bonus period. Additionally, it is specified that when a player has both real money and bonus money in their account, the real money is used first. Once the bonus money is lost, the bonus is forfeited.
Also, we inform you that the English version of the Terms & Conditions is the original one, and we kindly advise you to always check this version if there is no indication in the German one or any other language.
However, despite canceling the First Deposit Bonus and having played with the funds, we have refunded your initial deposit of €1,000 to your account since real money is used first based on the term that the Player can request a withdrawal of their deposit before meeting the requirements for bonus wagering. In this case, the amount of the bonus and winnings are void, and the remaining funds, if any, are paid to the player.
Therefore, we cannot return any additional amounts as the wagering requirements for the First Deposit Bonus were not met.
Lastly, according to our daily limits, as you were on step 7 (level 1 on the VIP ladder), you could request to withdraw a maximum of €700 per day. In your case, we have processed the initial €700 and then the remaining €300.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Winsane Casino Support Team
Public
Public
4 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
Some casinos have bonuses locked with deposits, making it impossible to achieve the functionality you described. Winsane Casino uses this system, which is why refunding the deposited amount is the appropriate response to the situation that occurred.
Public
Public
4 months ago
Translation
Hello Matej and Winsane / Softgenius,
In this case, it is not about turnover requirements but about the display of real money and bonus money. As everyone can clearly see, my winnings are displayed as real money and are also displayed as real money after canceling the bonus.
If this is a display error or a programming error, it may not be exploited to the detriment of the player. Real money is real money and bonus-linked money is bonus-linked money.
The casino can also display it correctly. I tested this and after you have lost your deposit and won more than the original bonus in the bonus money area, it will also be displayed in the account with €0.00 real money and €2,123.40 bonus money.
It is therefore a deliberate deception or a previously undetected error at Softgenius NV Casinos.
In my opinion, relying on a paragraph to explain a display error or deliberate deception is dubious. As I have already written, I have deposited in 5 casinos run by Softgenius NV and won in 3 of them before the bonus area began and in all 3 of them it was displayed as REAL MONEY. What reason would there be for me to cancel an account balance of €4,700.00 in order to deposit the remaining €1,000 in another casino and then play with €2,000.00?
I feel like I was deliberately cheated out of my winnings and the other two deposits of €1,000 each at Cashwin and sushi. The deposits would not have been made if I had not assumed that the real money would be withdrawable. You are welcome to track the deposits as they only took place after the win at Winsane.
I refer again to my screenshot with reference to real money balances and plead for fairness and payout of winnings or at least refund of deposits at Cashwin and Sushi. I would also like to ask Casinoguru to point out to future players that balances at these casinos are incorrectly displayed as real money even though they are bonus-related money.
Of course I would accept it if Casinoguru closed the case as solved if Winsane/Softgenius were not prepared to meet my needs, but I appeal for fair play and equity. Real money is real money and the player should not be penalized for false reports.
Greetings
AndYOhmsen
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
3 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
To summarize the case:
So you didn't ask anybody, didn't read the terms and conditions, and assumed that the bonus system works like in other casinos where you played before. Because you saw in your account that you had a real money balance and you were not aware that the deposit is locked, you decided to cancel the bonus, and you did the same strategy in five casinos, and in three of them, you managed to win.
You believe that the casino should pay you because in your account you saw information that the balance is real balance.
I understand that it could confuse you, and I would definitely recommend the casino to fix this issue by showing the balance in bonus money for example, or showing the information about the locked deposit, but we are talking here about, in the best case, about a visual error. Because of that, I believe that the casino acted correctly by returning you the deposited money and you have no right to the winnings.
Public
Public
3 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.
Public
Public
3 months ago
Translation
Hello Matej,
However, I find the visual deception to be very significant. After the bonus was cancelled, the real money was still displayed and not reduced. It should therefore have shown the correct amount immediately after the cancellation. When I requested a withdrawal, they waited 3 days and then told me that 3x1,000.00 € per withdrawal was too high and that the daily limit was only 700.00 €. Why wasn't they informed me that there was no real money in the amount of 3,000.00 €? Another 3 days later, I received a message saying that I was not entitled to the real money and that the terms and conditions were incorrect.
I am aware that an official complaint will probably not be successful due to the general terms and conditions and the hidden note that real money bets do not generate real money winnings. But I am sure that the casino is aware of the visual error and that it is being used deliberately to deceive the player. My aim with this complaint is not to get my winnings paid out, but to warn future players about this error. Softgenius has lost me as a player and I hope that I can warn many people about this deliberate deception and that Casino Guru will downgrade the rating or clearly point out that the visual deception is problematic.
Greetings
AndyOhmsen
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
3 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
If I simplify your case it would be something like:
I didn't read the terms (ok most of people don't)
I expected that bonuses work how I am used to it (this is your fault)
I saw that I have winnings from real money so I canceled the bonus (casino's fault that they show it this way)
I want my winnings (why)
I want the casino to be punished (why)
The casino solved the case by refunding you the deposits. In most casinos, there is a very reasonable rule which basically says in case of any error all bets are void. So in this case, returning you the deposits is exactly what the casino should do.
I agree with you that the casino should display the amounts correctly, however, I do not see this as a reason for punishing the casino.
If you consider that this issue affects only people who didn't read the terms and want to cancel the bonus that's not so many people after all and I believe that the casino will solve the issue with showing balance in real money soon.
Public
Public
3 months ago
Translation
Example Winsane - Also in the other casinos of the group always under different sections
23.2 The player decides whether to use or reject the proposed bonuses.
23.12. If the player has real money and bonus money in his account, the real money will be used up first. Once the bonus money is lost, the bonus is also lost.
Both rules are incorrect. I should have actively rejected the bonus. But I didn't actively choose it.
And if real money is used first, why doesn't real money produce real money winnings? I have never lost my deposit and have therefore always played with real money.
Matej, this is exactly what I mean:
"I saw that I have real money winnings so I canceled the bonus" (it's the casino's fault that they display it like that)
The casino group has not yet changed it, so it continues to show other players real money winnings before they reach the bonus area. This visual error cost me €2000 because I would not have deposited in any other casinos from the casino group if it had shown it correctly. 5 casinos, 5x1000 € deposited.
If the casino really had honest interests, the error would have been fixed immediately so that other players would not have the same problem. But they are using this error on purpose to keep players in their casinos until the error is discovered.
I therefore cannot recommend the casino group as reputable, otherwise the "alleged" visual error would have been fixed long ago.
Greetings
AndY
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
3 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
Here is what I found in Winsane's bonus T&Cs:
10.
A player may cancel an active bonus at any time from the My Bonuses section or by contacting us via Live Chat or email at support@winsane19885.com. By canceling the bonus, the whole amount in the Casino Bonus balance and all winnings accumulated during the bonus period will also be voided.
You can cancel the bonus at any time, but you will only receive your deposit back, as the deposit is tied to the bonus.
I understand that displaying winnings under these conditions in real money can be confusing. However, implementing changes in a casino is not a quick process; it can take months, depending on who needs to make the change. In this case, it involves the platform, meaning the casino must submit a request to the platform owner. If they agree to the change, it may take months before you see it reflected correctly. I wish I could expedite this process, but I have no influence over it, and I can't blame the casino since the decision rests with the platform.
Public
Public
2 months ago
Translation
"Cancellation of the bonus will also result in the forfeiture of the entire amount of the casino bonus balance as well as all winnings accumulated during the bonus period."
However, I was not in the bonus area but in the real money area. I think that combined with the incorrect display is not correct and as long as the casino group uses the incorrect display, they should warn against the casino or at least make a note of this error to warn other players.
I don't want to achieve anything more, I have personally written off my winnings and just want to ensure that this dubious type of provider does not find any more victims.
Automatic translation:
Public
Public
2 months ago
Dear andyohmsen,
I understand you; you found a bug in the system and you pointed it out. We informed the casino that it shouldn't work this way, and more we can't do. I can only hope that it would be a valuable lesson for both parties. Next time you will read the bonus terms carefully, and the casino will fix the bonus so the winnings will be in bonus money.
With this hope, I am closing this complaint.
