IceBet Casino - Part of players bonus winnings hasn't been credited.

Guten Tag,

das Casino hat den Betrag aus meinem Konto entfernt. Ich habe mit 225 Euro Bonus Geld gespielt. Zuvor habe ich 800 Icecoins im Bonusshop in 225 Euro umgewandelt. Es waren zwei Käufe. Beim ersten Kauf 700 Icecoins (200) und eine Sekunde später 100 Icecoins (25 Euro).

Man hat mir 110 Euro des Gewinns ausgezahlt, 5600 Euro entfernt. Der maximal auszahlbare Betrag aus Geldern aus dem Bonusshop wird in den Bonus Bedingungen des Anbieters mit x 25 angegeben, abhängig von der Stufe. Mir wurde eine Email gesendet, dass mir nur der maximal 5 fache Betrag für meine Stufe ausgezahlt werden kann.

Leider geht das Casino aber nur von den umgewandelten 25 Euro aus. Die 200 Euro wurden einfach unter den Teppich gekehrt. Auf meine Emails wird nicht reagiert. Der Chat kann nicht helfen. Ich soll mich an die Finanzabteilung wenden. Dort passiert nichts.

Ich bin sehr enttäuscht und habe das Gefühl das Casino arbeitet im Background mit Hütchenspielertricks.

Hello Linda,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your negative experience.

Would you be so kind and send me all the relevant communication between you and the casino, so we can gather as much information as possible? My email address is kristina.s@casino.guru.

Also, could you please clarify the dispute value? Is it €5,600 or €200?

I hope, we will help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Kristina

Zum Streitwert: Bei Auszahlung vom 25 fachen des Bonusbetrags sind es 5625 Euro. Bei Auszahlung des 5 fachen Bonusbetrages, mit dem gespielt wurde, 1125 Euro. 

Das muss außerdem noch geklärt werden.

In den Bonusbedingungen ist nirgendwo ersichtlich, wie hoch die Auszahlung pro Stufe ist. Es ist sehr schwammig ausgedrückt und lässt dem Casino viel Spielraum. Man wirbt mit dem 25 fachen Betrag und gibt am Ende nen Scheibenkleister.

Mit meiner Einzahlung bei icebet kaufe ich aber auch die Geschäftsbedingungen mit ein. Wenn die vom Casino selbst nicht eingehalten werden, hat es seine Lizenz in meinen Augen verwirkt. 

Nochmal zur Erklärung:

Ich habe zweimal Icecoins im Bonusshop in Bonusgeld getauscht. Da ich 800 Icecoins hatte, konnte ich einmal 700 tauschen und einmal 100. Das Casino tut aber nun so, als ob ich nur mit 25 Euro Bonus Geld (zuvor 100 Icecoins) gespielt habe. Und hat mir daher auch nur 110 Euro ausgezahlt. Vermutlich der 5 fache Betrag. Aus irgendeinem Grund rechnen sie nur mit 22 Euro, statt 25. Obwohl es diesen Betrag in Euro im Bonusshop gar nicht gibt. Alles sehr mysteriös. 

Meine Bonus Käufe wurden mir ein paar Tage vor meinem Auszahlungsantrag im Chat bestätigt. Als hätte ich es schon geahnt, dass bei dem Casino etwas nicht stimmt. Den Screenshot des Chatverlaufs habe ich an deine Email gesendet. Im Icebet Account kann man eine Übersicht der Bonuskäufe leider nicht aufrufen. Auch ein Screenshot des Umtauschkurses im Bonusshop habe ich dir per Email gesendet.

Ich danke herzlich für deine Hilfe! 

Thank you for your reply, Linda. I checked the bonus T&Cs and I found this:

"1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x25 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account)."

Could you please advise what is the current level of your account?

Danke Kristina. Momentan ist mein Viplevel 4 - Silver. Zum Zeitpunkt der Entfernung der Gewinne von meinem Account, hatte ich das Viplevel 2 "Ice". Das war Ende Dezember.

Thank you very much Linda for your reply. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Hi Linda,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. I will contact the casino and see if I can help. I would like to invite IceBet Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Linda and Peter,

we have reviewed the client's complaint in detail and describe the situation in detail below. 

2021-12-16 05:58:22 - player bought a 200 EUR bonus in the bonus shop for coins and activated it.

2021-12-16 05:58:42 - player bought a random bonus of 22 EUR in the bonus shop for coins and activated it.

2021-12-16 05:59:26 - so the player started the game with a balance of 222 EUR.

According to the rules of the project, the first always wagering bonus that was activated first. 

That is, the player began wagering of the bonus of 200 EUR which was activated first. 

2021-12-16 07:44:26 - The player's game balance decreased to the amount of 21.2 EUR when playing Rhyming Reels Georgie Porgie slot.

Accordingly, the bonus of 200 EUR player lost and wagering requirements of this bonus are canceled. 

The player began wagering a bonus of 22 EUR.

Which eventually won back and the real balance of the client was credited an amount of 1737.6 EUR, on which the player continued to play. 

According to the rules of the project:

1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x25 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account).

At the time of wagering the bonus the player had a status that allows you to withdraw funds from the bonus shop in the amount of x5 of the amount of bonus received.

When withdrawing, the player's balance was adjusted to the amount of 110 EUR (22 EUR x5 = 110 EUR) and the player has successfully withdrawn these funds to his payment method. 

All actions were carried out with the account strictly in accordance with the regulations of the project. 

If you have any further questions, we are always happy to help you. 

Dear IceBet Casino team,

Thank you for your reply. Let me ask you some additional questions. 1. How does a player know what the maximum cashout for bonuses on their level is? 2. Has Linda continued playing with €1737.6 and so reached €5600? Why was she able to continue wagering when the wagering of the bonus was finished?

Dear Peter.

1. The status of the account the player can clarify at any time by contacting the financial department of the casino by e-mail: kyc@icebet.casino

2. Player completed wagering bonus amount 22EUR 2021-12-16 10:00. At this time, the amount of 1737.6 EUR was transferred from the bonus account to a real account. Then the player continued the game with real money.

At the time of the application for withdrawal, the financial department brought the game balance of the player to the value of the maximum amount of winnings/withdrawals from the received bonus in the amount of 22EUR bought in the bonus store, according to the status of the player's account. That is, the balance of the player was brought to the value of 110EUR.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

After discussing the issue with our management, we came to the conclusion that the player's winnings should be paid in full. Here's why: At the time of wagering of the bonus, the max cashout of 25x of the bonus amount was displayed in the casino's T&Cs. The player couldn't have known that her winnings would get cut significantly because the rules of the bonus referring to the player's VIP level aren't presented anywhere. Eventually, it makes an impression that the rules were applied randomly based on somebody's decision.

Dear Peter,

Let me tell you again in detail exactly what happened. 

Client registered 2021-11-30.

Customer has made deposits of 400EUR (4 payments of 100EUR) since registration until 2021-12-05 

2021-12-16 customer buys 2 bonuses, one worth €200 (the first one) and the second one worth €22. 

You can see this in the screenshot. 

As you can see the first bonus of €200 was lost and counts as "cancelled", and the €22 bonus was wagered by the customer.

Again, according to customer statistics, there were 400 euros worth of deposits at the time of the bonus purchase. 

According to the rules of the project, VIP policy, to get 1 VIP lvl you have to make deposits of at least 1000EUR.

According to these statistics the client did not have 2 VIP lvl as he made deposits for 400 EUR. 

P.s. at the moment the IT department is still working on this section (VIP) and it is for information only. But any player can clarify his VIP status with CS staff by sending an email to support@icebet.casino.

According to the rules of the project:

1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x25 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account).

Accordingly, each VIP level equals x5 of the amount of bonus received in the Bonus Shop so that the client can withdraw funds in case of wagering the bonus. 

According to the client's VIP level statistics, the client did not have a VIP level at the time the bonus was purchased. Therefore, in this case, the client was also met and left an amount of x5 of the purchased bonus and allowed to withdraw funds as a loyalty. 

In the end, the client withdrew 110 euros (22 euros bonus * x5) to his payment method.

The amount of €5,600 stated by the client in the complaint is not valid. 

All actions to the client have been completed to the fullest extent according to the project regulations. 

If you have any further questions, we will be happy to answer them. 

Dear IceBet Casino,

Where exactly can the following information be found?

"Accordingly, each VIP level equals x5 of the amount of bonus received in the Bonus Shop so that the client can withdraw funds in case of wagering the bonus."

It's not mentioned in the General Terms, Bonus Terms, or Specific Bonus Terms. The whole argument is based on a rule that doesn't exist. If you want to apply some rules, I highly recommend creating and publishing them before the offer is up and running, not after. I'm afraid, our position hasn't changed.

Dear Peter,

The administration of the project has reviewed the complaint and is ready to compensate the client for the amount according to the regulations. 

1.1. Maximum possible withdrawal amount from no deposit bonuses received in the Bonus Shop: x25 of the amount of bonus or funds received from free spins (depends on the status of the account).

The player bought an amount of 22 EUR in the bonus store.

According to the rules we agree to refund to the balance of the client the maximum allowable under this offer, namely x25 of the amount of the received bonus.

The client was previously credited to the game balance from this bonus 110 EUR, which he successfully withdrew to his payment method. 

According to the rules: 22 EUR (bonus) x25 = 550EUR

Of which the client has already received 110 EUR.

Total if the client agrees, we will credit the amount of 440 EUR to his balance, which will be immediately available for withdrawal. 

Awaiting confirmation from you and the client to credit this amount and close this complaint. 

Danke, ich nehme das Angebot an. Ich wusste nicht, dass ich mit zwei aktiven Boni gespielt habe. Ich bin davon ausgegangen, dass ich mit dem gesamten Guthaben aus den Icecoins spiele. Ich hatte 800 Coins und diese wollte ich komplett eintauschen. Ja es ist ein wenig tricky die Bedingungen zu durchschauen.

Vielen Dank Peter für deine Hartnäckigkeit!

Dear IceBet Casino,

Thank you for changing your decision. I highly recommend implementing some changes to the current bonus system you are using because it seems to be very confusing (based also on other complaints) and quite player unfriendly. It is not clear what the bonus conditions are, if the real money balance is actually real money balance, and if the players should make a withdrawal after each bonus win. However, since Linda accepted your offer, the complaint will become resolved.

Dear Linda,

Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. Don’t hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.

Best regards,

Peter