Unfair RTP complaints (page 2)

Yes, this is specially true with big casinos with dozens of thousands of active daily players, casinos with smaller userbase can definitely struggle to survive and that just makes the user experience worse because they could definitely not be able to pay out users, at least that's not a problem with casinos that are clearly profitable 😂

Are you ok?

"don’t conclude anything I have never said,please" what have I concluded? It’s a thread and it’s my opinion, that’s the purpose of a thread. You’ve voluntarily jumped in trying come up with a solution, which I haven’t asked for. Feel free to let others have a go.

Hello.

I am. Thank you for asking, I guess.

Look, the situation goes like this:

We aim to provide realistic insights into the world of gambling because many members come here just to read.

Thus, it's vital to advise on how things actually really work.

This is also why we were both interested in the possible outcome of your inquiry with the game provider.

I have no intention of having negative feelings; honestly, I do not understand your approach.

We also aim to support players (by suggesting tips or complaints) by sharing reasonable issues, sadly, complaining about generally unfair RTP is most often just complaining without proof.

Take it as an experience, nothing offensive.

I appreciate your opinion, even though it is far from how RNG , volatility, and RTP work in terms of math.

If there was a way to help you, I would do that. I'm interested in your progress and wish you a bit of much better luck in the future.

That is all.

Have a good one!

Hi!

Can you please explain how you are counting RTP? I understand the meaning but don't know which digits i should split or multiply by.

Hi, first of all, I'd suggest you to go through this article. I believe you'll find it very helpful. Anyway, I'd like to give you a more specific answer so here it is:

You count all your bets together.

So let's say you bet following amounts per spin on a slot: 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 3 ,1, 2 = 15 in total bets

Then you count all of your winnings together.

Let's say you won: 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 5, 3, 0 = 11 in total winnings

Total winnings / Total bets = 11 / 15 = 0.73

Then you just multiply it by 100 in order to get a percentage:

0.73 x 100 = 73%, which is the RTP in this case.

That means 73% of the money you bet returned back to you 🙂

Let me know if you have further questions.

Guys, I think you are forgetting about one thing.

RTP, as in the article:

Payout ratio (also known as expected return, payout percentage or RTP – return to player) of a game of chance is the long-term statistical rate of total money won divided by the total money staked. The opposite of the payout ratio is the house edge. The house edge is calculated as 100% minus payout ratio. If the payout ratio is 95% then the house edge is 100% – 95% = 5%.

That's correct info, but given RTP is not per player, but for the game, so having x numbers of players wagering on the same game within a specified time period will result in "published RTP".

Good point, but it does not change the math. Have you heard that the RNG generator goes on even if no one is playing the game? That would mean there is no difference, right?

From thousands of casinos, what's the probability that no one is playing the game, speaking world-wide

That's why I said it makes no difference. Even if such a situation had occurred, it would not have changed much.

By the way, now that I'm thinking of it, what do you mean by published RTP? Based on what time period do you consider this value, please?

There's no time frame I'd say. Buddy of mine is a mathematician for one of the game providers. Each game when released, to determine the RTP is tested through simulations while using virtual players, with different stakes, bonus buys etc. From that, pay tables are analysed .

I'd rather say that RTP is average over a specified number of game rounds, not on time period.

Other thing, volatility of the game makes the difference as well. From a single player point of view, if playing the game with 95% - high volatility, hit rate would be lower, but chance of winning bigger amount will be better, where in low volatile games (same RTP) I will win more often, but less.

I can't find now, there were some statistics per game, with hit rates on each slot (official info from providers), chances of hitting max wins per game etc.

If I remember well, winning max win on some of the Pragmatic Play games was around 1 in a million. Depends on the game.

Could be worth as well to check the licensing bodies (at the end of the day, games have to be approved by each license), so UKGC for example, requires games to be tested and RTP monitored to calculate the actual RTP, and compared to the expected (advertised) RTP. Each license will be different though.

Just an example from UKGC:

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/strategy/testing-strategy-for-compliance-with-remote-gambling-and-software-technical/5-live-rtp-monitoring#ref-11

Forgot to mention, RTP is a theoretical average, based on those test results, and math behind the game. I don't think there's a guarantee that overall RTP will be as advertised. It's random, one person wins, someone else is losing.

Also, important to remember, that mini wins (lower than the stake), are contributing as well to the RTP.

Silly example, but, let's say, 1000 players have €1 on balance. All of them, make one spin with €1, same game. All of them have same result, they win €0,92. RTP for this 1000 players is 92%.