Fresh Casino - general discussion

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Casino Guru gives Fresh-Casino a perfect reputation and rates the T&C as fair. I disagree. In my opinion, paragraph 8.6 of the T&C is not only unfair, but also probably violates the license agreement of the licensor.

8.6 You will not withhold or cancel previous transactions and deposits to your account. Otherwise, you undertake to return these funds and compensate the Company for the unplaced funds, including expenses incurred by the Company when collecting your deposits.

A player should always have the right to claim their money back should the casino make a mistake (eg violating the RG policy etc.). A casino should always have a control authority. Otherwise, Casino Guru can close immediately. Fresh Casino told me that even if the casino made a mistake and a third party (ADR / Licensing Authority) agrees with the player on something, they cannot claim back their deposited money under any circumstances. According to T&C, if the player gets his money back, he has to pay it back to the casino including fees.

I ask kindly for the opinion of Casino Guru.

Hello,

from my point of view, this rule should defend the casino in case the player requests a chargeback for instance. It strongly depends on how and when this rule is applied.

furthermore, this rule does not refer to any mistake made by the casino, as you suggested. Hence again the question of fairness depends on how the casino enforces this rule.

This is a fresh casino, so I believe that we've not witnessed this rule be applied so far, therefore we can't say it's been misused.

Allow me to say, the reply from the manager is very vague and general. She only confirmed that by registering you agree to all Terms and Conditions but she avoided commenting on the rule itself.

If you ever come across an actual problem caused by this term, we can examine the concrete situation closely and make a concrete conclusion.

Good day

Thank you for your message. I tried to explain my view and experience as precisely as possible, but apparently I didn't succeed. I apologize for that.

1. I believe that T&C should be transparent and self-explanatory. They should also not be given a different meaning depending on the individual case. This also with regard to the Codex of Casino Guru. Therefore, regardless of my case, I have objected to paragraph 8.6 as such.

2. Of course, a player cannot, for example, make deposits with his credit card, then gamble away that money and then withdraw the deposit. This is clear and rightly so.

3. Fresh-Casino has told me several times and also confirmed that this paragraph states that players have no right to claim back already deposited money by means of a complaint. Not even if the casino made mistakes or violated the license agreement or RG policy.

4, My case: I asked the casino to refund my deposits because I'm from Switzerland. While Swiss citizens are allowed to play in foreign casinos in Switzerland, it is illegal for foreign casinos to offer games. (You know the story I also know that Casino Guru cannot help me with this, as Casino Guru only intervenes when it comes to unpaid winnings.) That's not the problem. What bothers me is the reasoning of the casino. If the casino says it's my responsibility which sites I register and play money on, then I could live with that justification. But I was amazed by the reason I published in my first message. The player is not allowed to reclaim funds for whatever reason and has to give the deposits back to the casino if they are right in any case and get deposits refunded. Even if the casino has made obvious mistakes, for example? It is also questionable whether the casino should have this clause as a player can always complain to the ADR or licensing authority.

It can't be that I file a normal complaint and the casino tells me that I have no right to ask for any money back whatsoever. Every player should have the right not to be at the mercy of the casino. The casino scares and lies to the players by saying that according to 8.6 you can't file a complaint and ask for money back. The casino has said and confirmed this several times.

5. In any case, I will file a complaint against paragraph 8.6 with the licensing authority. If Casino Guru could give me his opinion on my case it would very help me. How many players wanted to file a complaint but didn't because Fresh Casino said it violated 8.6. Even if a player gets right, according to 8.6 he must pay back the money.

I ask Casino Guru to really study my screenshots carefully.

Kind regards

Dario Jablanovic

I file a complaint with the casino and they refer me to paragraph 8.6 in their article. In the context of my complaint, I have read or seen the following:

"Dario, this clause of the rules means that you undertake not to refuse previously made deposits, not to cancel operations for placing funds, not to protest the funds on which you have independently made bets. Otherwise, you undertake to compensate all costs of our side in the collection process for the return of your deposits"

"Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6. By registering on the website you confirm that you will not withhold or cancel previous transactions and deposits to your account. Otherwise, you undertake to return these funds and compensate the Company for the unplaced funds, including expenses incurred by the Company when collecting your deposits."

My question to Fresh-Casino was: "I have no right to claim back already deposited funds for any reason because of Article 8.6? If I get money back, then I have to refund it to you, including the deposit fees"

The answer of Fresh-Casino: "Dario, yes, that's right. By registering on our website, you agreed to all the terms and conditions that are presented on our website."

It is not a question of defending the casino and suspecting how paragraph 8.6 is meant. It is now mainly about how the casino explains to the players in relation to paragraphs 8.6 and specifically in which contexts applies against the player.

Casino Guru said: "furthermore, this rule does not refer to any mistake made by the casino, as you suggested". My question. How do you come to this conclusion / realization? Does Casino Guru always think that the casinos act honorably? This defensive attitude towards casinos is increasing more and more.

I am looking forward to the opinion of the Casino Guru.

I see, I have no chance of making a complaint against any casino at Antillephone N.V. enter, it will always be rejected.

I stand by my opinion:

The casino's response when I filed a T&C breach complaint was this: "Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."

When I asked if I could never get my money back through a complaint, the casino said yes.

To me, this is a deliberate misrepresentation, and misstatement and application of 8.6. Highly unfair.

I understand the situation now - I hope. I read your complaint to be sure.

Well, I still think that this is not a problem of any unfair behavior.

You deliberately played - deposited in the casino knowing that this casino is not registered in Switzerland. You played and suddenly decided to ask for your deposit to be refunded because this casino is still not licensed in Switzerland, am I correct at this point?

But there is no reason to refund you because the casino didn't do anything wrong in my eyes.

I must agree with Nick: " It all depends on the request of the player and if it's reasonable. Unfortunately, at your case you are not eligible for a refund..."

Dear Radka

Thank you for reading my complaint again.

You said: But there is no reason to refund you because the casino didn't do anything wrong in my eyes.

In my view, that is a very dangerous statement. We all know that a casino should not offer games in areas where gambling is prohibited. The casino should add Switzerland to the list of banned countries as well as they have banned other dozens of countries for the same reasons. Because it is against the law for foreign casinos to offer gambling. You know that the question of legality has not been finally clarified, that this is a legal gray area and that different parties and courts see the situation differently. Switzerland firmly believes that casinos should also add Switzerland to the list of banned countries because offering foreign gambling in Switzerland has been banned by referendum since January 1, 2019. I just want to say that your statement that the casino did nothing wrong is very benevolent towards the casino and a court may at some point see it differently.

And in general, I did not violate T&C in this regard. The T&C (4.2) states: You hereby agree, confirm, and guarantee that your use of the Website services does not violate any of the applicable laws, statutes, and regulations.

Let me note something here: According to Swiss law, it is forbidden for foreign casinos to offer gambling in Switzerland and for Swiss without a license, but it is legal for Swiss to play at foreign casinos. This means that as a player I have not violated any laws and T&C.

My question in this regard: Where exactly in the T&C is it written that I am responsible for whether offering gambling is allowed in my country or not? I repeat: the use of the website is absolutely legal for Swiss, but the offer of games by casinos is not.

I know that there is a consensus on the legal situation and responsibility for gambling offers abroad. Still, I think it's important to take the patience and time to read the casino's respective T&Cs word for word in this regard. The T&C differ in this respect in many casinos and it cannot be assumed that there is a general rule/consensus. Fresh Casino's T&C only states that I will find out if I am allowed to play at the site and if my use of the site is against the law. It is nowhere in the Fresh-Casino T&C that I allow or agree or that it is my responsibility if the casino itself breaks any laws by offering gambling. (Anyway, it is legally questionable whether a person can shift responsibility to another person if the former does illegal acts. Are T&C allowed, which state that I am solely responsible for the consequences wear if another person robs a bank?)

What I want to say: The question of legality has certainly not yet been finally clarified here, but that wasn't my problem , as you know.

My problem was: I file a complaint and the casino tells me that I have no right to file a complaint. Regardless of the subject matter and reason , because I have consented according to Casino Article 8.6. The casino informed me:

Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6 ."

This is a general statement and rule that does not refer to the content / reason / trigger of the complaint. The casino clearly states that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms. The casino does not specifically say that it is not allowed to file a complaint about the legality of the country of origin, but clearly states that any procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of th T&C of the side.

Or how does Casino Guru evaluate this statement and application of paragraph 8.6 by the casino? I don't see any restrictions regarding grounds for complaints. But I still think that statement violates the license terms. A player should always have the right to procedure for dispute of deposited funds. Whether he is then right is another question. But telling players that any filing and any process of disputing deposited funds is a violation of 8.6 is simply not legal. This application of paragraph 8.6 is simply wrong.

Please note that the procedure for dispute of deposited funds is considered a breach of the terms and conditions of the site. This is stated in paragraph 8.6."

Where does Article 8.6 state the reasons for which a complaint may and may not be filed? In my view, this is not stated in Article 8.6. I really ask you to check this interpretation and application of Article 8.6 by the Casino.

Thank you.

Best regards

Dario

I am writing again and hope that you will finally understand my request and take it seriously.

Please read the screenshots in the attachment carefully.

Jet-Casino is a sister casino of Fresh-Casino and both are licensed by Galaktika N.V. Both casinos have the same support and the exact same T&C. Word by word. I asked in Jet Casino livechat what article 8.6 means exactly. Jet Casino also confirmed to me that under no circumstances does a player have the right to lodge a complaint and request a refund. (Casino Guru told me that it always depends on the case and the situation).

Only: The woman in the live chat didn't know that I wanted to file a complaint and why.

I stand by my argument: The T&C of Galaktika N.V. are misleading and unfair. Every player should have the right to lodge a complaint with an independent body (ADR) or with the licensor. And the player must not be lied to in advance by the casino that this is not allowed under Article 8.6. This prevents players from filing complaints.

That Article 8.6 means that a player may not lodge a complaint under any circumstances was something I didn't realize when registering and reading the T&C. This is deliberate deception. Both casinos have independently told me that it is not possible for me to file a complaint for whatever reason because of 8.6.

As a result, I stand by my claims and request that my "contract" with Fresh Casino be voided due to improper use and information from T&C and reclaim my deposits in full including compensation. Otherwise, I will take further steps.

Many thanks for your response

Dear Dario,

I will get this short for both your posts at once because I do not intend to repeat myself more times than necessary.

What you still put together is legality and fairness.

Legality is a question for local authorities and court nevertheless "but it is legal for Swiss to play at foreign casinos" also means that even the casino did not violate any own terms especially if you chose to play there willingly - it was your own choice.

The casino did not make any mistake, if you are concerned, always chose a casino that is registered in Switzerland.

If you play and lose you are not entitled to any refund, that is normal. If you play and lose and then try to make chargeback because you lose and you want your money back that's not fair toward the casino.

Your situation is almost the same, don't you think?

I still believe and those screenshots confirm - in my eyes, that this rule is exactly for chargebacks made by players:

When a player asks the bank for chargeback, the casino has no chance to block this operation no matter the reason. So this rule serves as a defense.

I still agree with this "that Casino Guru told me that it always depends on the case and the situation"

Please solve the question of legality with local authorities, we serve as a mediator only.

Reply if you wish but I believe there is no point in doing so, I truly think we can't come up with anything fresh from now on.

I'm very sorry to annoy you with my posts. In any case, it seems that you always see only the good in a casino and argue that a casino always acts honestly, transparently and benevolently when it comes to T&C. I just wanted to warn the players here that paragraph 8.6 is being applied in a non-transparent and unclear and vague manner by the casino and to point out to the players that you always have the opportunity to file a complaint. Even if the casino refers to article 8.6 and says that you can't file a complaint about it for whatever reason.

Of course, the article is intended to ensure that the player does not withdraw (via bank, credit card) from deposits that have already been made. This is to protect the casino. I also understand that Casino Guru thinks Article 8.6 only applies in this regard.

However, I have asked two different people from Galaktika NV how Article 8.6 is to be understood. When I asked them, they both assured me and confirmed that Article 8.6 states that no complaints may be lodged. I posted screenshots yesterday where I asked directly:

"so no matter why I can't demand a refund back and get it. By means of a complaint, etc. Is that true?"

The casino's response was: ""Yes, since making deposits is only your decision and the consequence of your action" (...) "In any case, this is a violation of the rules, Dario"

I don't understand why Radka only quotes those screenshots that are in favor of the casino and totally ignores other statements.

I also received an answer from the licensor Antillephone: The licensor disagrees with Casino Guru. Casino Guru says Article 8.6 is only intended to protect against players making chargebacks. However, the licensor says the article serves to dismiss and prevent unnecessary complaints, especially when it comes to gambling addiction and legal status.

I stand by my opinion: a player should always have the right to lodge a complaint and not be referred to Article 8.6 and say that you have no right to lodge a complaint. It is also incorrect to say that you are generally not allowed to file a complaint on certain issues. As Nick from Casino Guru said, every case is specific and individual. Of course I can file a complaint, for example, if a country is on the website's list of banned countries and I was still able to play. Of course I can file a complaint about gambling addiction, for example if I have been assured that I am banned from the entire casino group but was still allowed to play etc.

A casino must not, under any circumstances, prevent players from filing a complaint. It does not matter for what reason. The casino's use of 8.6 is highly unfair. T&C should be clear and not allow much room for interpretation and be meaningful enough, even if I have agreed to the T&C with my registration.

Yesterday I asked the sister casino about Article 8.6. She told me that I was not allowed to file a complaint asking for a refund of my deposits. But she didn't know that I wanted to file a complaint and why.

It is not about how Casino Guru interprets Article 8.6. It would be nice if it only applied to unauthorized chargebacks. It's all about how the article is used by the casino against players when they file a complaint. It is also about how the article is explained by the casino to the players.

The casino may deprive players of the hope of filing a complaint in advance by referring to Article 8.6. Most players know that you can always file a complaint, but not all. The casino is not allowed to say that the T&C says that you are not allowed to file a complaint and discourage people in advance. This is my advice to you.

Dear Dario,

I would not call this annoying, but I feel that all has been already said/written.

I empathize with your feelings and I'm happy that you put so much effort to do what you feel is correct.

We do the same.

Sadly, I can't see any point in constant debate on theoretical subjects and issues.

You submitted the complaint, that is something we can comment on. And we did already.

Furthermore,

If any player comes across this rule being used or better say misused in a practical term, only after that we can debate on what has truly happened and how the casino enforced this rule concretely, based on the submitted complaint containing arguments from both parties.

I hope you understand.

Hi. In the Freshcasino there is also a German customer service via e-mail and in chat.

Hello and thank you for your update! I'm following the information to the proper team 👍

What about the quality of live chat or customer support, can you comment a bit? 🙂

Hi. Very good. All questions will be answered promptly. I won 800 euros on my first deposit with a bonus on Friday and the money was in my account on Monday. The support was always very friendly, although I asked 3x if the payout was really coming. But everything worked fine. For me the best casino at the moment. Warm greetings

To be honest, I don't know how the casino was able to do so well. 1st deposit was good, it went like hell

Hello,

what has happened?

Stroke of bad luck in the casino?

Hello,

unlucky me nothing to do with that.

If the games freeze or the internet connection is too slow despite a 1000 line or you get kicked out of the game for no reason.

For me, that's pure rip-off.

Gambling is gambling but when you are so obviously cheated then it has nothing to do with gambling

If you're connected let's say to your wi-fi using a computer, then the best way of testing it would be to connect with your phone through the mobile internet and test the same game.

Otherwise, it's hard to say whether the issue is on yours or their side.

Have played via mobile phone in the WiFi as well as via mobile data and via the WiFi on the PC, the same problem everywhere