Yes, even if they found a new company, the parent company usually remains the same, so the blame always goes to the parent company. It's veiled, but the lawyers usually find the parent companies via detours, otherwise just the managing directors.
I've been waiting longer than you 🤣 I've been executing for over a year.
If the first executions go through, the people will be more likely to pay the sentences. There's definitely something going on in the background because they all want the license from 2027...
And what is the current status? Is there any newer information about the procedures?
NO parent company is liable for such things.
May I ask which provider?
Think of Google, Amazon... they all have many companies. No mother is responsible.
Green
Same!
Yes, most of them with this provider.
You, I had that with 777, they also changed their operator during the proceedings and then the parent company was liable, the lawyer then expanded the lawsuit. I'll just take a look at the letters.
OK, according to my PF things are different here in Austria. I had a case where the operator registered Inso. Unfortunately, the new operator (the homepage is still EXACTLY the same) is not liable or even sueable. Well according to my PF at least.
Sorry, have to correct myself. It was 888Casino etc. Virgil digital Ltd. Then there was the extension of the lawsuit, but not because of the parent company, but because the amount was Dan. It was much higher than I had initially found. Sorry, you're right.
Sorry, my mistake. You are right. It won't be any different in Germany, but so far I don't know of any judgment that has been made public and where no payment was made for the reasons mentioned. Austria will continue to maintain its monopoly and will not issue any licenses, so the market should no longer matter to them. Germany is by far the largest market in Europe and the big ones in THE industry now have a license that is controlled to the extent that they all pay for their offenses from before, before 2021, otherwise they would have to expect THE license to be revoked. In addition, the individual authorities across Europe pass on their data to each other, so that you can quickly see who is reliable and follows the rules or not.
Hi everyone,
I'm also currently in legal proceedings with Pokerstars. Does anyone know if they have now initiated a liquidation? This was also hinted at by my lawyer, but he doesn't know any more details yet... If that happens, it would mean that you would only get very little from them, if at all, and for this reason I would tend to accept the settlement offer from them Accept 25% 😕
Hello to Bremen,
I really don't mean any harm to you, but you should distinguish between "legal terms" and try to understand that a "title" doesn't mean money.
In Germany, too, if you have an "enforceable title" in your hands, you have to follow the "procedural steps". So if you want to enforce your title in Germany, you can't just go to the bank where your "judgement debtor" has an account and put the title on the table with the request "Please pay". That would only brighten their day and be a topic of conversation for a long time... but you have to contact the responsible bailiff. In Germany too, the debtor can defend himself against compulsory enforcement: application for enforcement protection, § 765a ZPO! (Some "law" would you like? -> https://jura-online.de/lernen/vollstreckungsschutzwerbung-765a-zpo/2963/excursus/).
The judges in Malta do not interfere at all, but rather ensure that the enforcement is carried out correctly. These are just the "executions", nothing more, but also nothing less.
Then unfortunately - not just from you - there is always a dilution of other legal terms such as " insolvency ", " liquidation ", liability of companies in " group relationships " (mother is liable for subsidiary, etc.), of " shareholders ", " managing directors " ( subsidiary liability)...
Really just presented in a very simplified way (the whole thing is very complex!): There are natural persons (you and me) and legal entities (GmbH, AG, GbR, cooperative, corporations, ...). Both "legal persons" have a "legal birth" and thus acquire "legal capacity". You and me with the "physical birth", legal entities with the "legal birth" (foundation and, if necessary, additional registration requirement) and a "legal end", you and me with death, legal entities with the "dissolution".
If the legal end has come and there is no "legal successor" (for you and me "heirs", for legal entities "takeover"), then that's it.
The difference between the natural / legal person is: The legal end!
Death is clearly "involuntary", but the "dissolution" of legal entities can be both voluntary - through "liquidation" - (it must be ensured, among other things, that all liabilities are paid) and conditionally voluntary (insolvency).
In both cases, there can be a " legal successor " who then takes over both the assets and the liabilities : in the case of you and me, the heirs, passive (unless they decline it), in the case of legal entities, the purchaser (active).
Only the heirs and/or the purchaser are liable for the liabilities of the legal predecessor !
So if an internet games provider, such as " Gelgier Ltd. ", simply wants to "let itself die" (voluntarily), then it must settle all liabilities (debts) that are " legally " known to the liquidator at the "time" of the intended death , so were communicated!
If there is a legal successor , such as " Gelgier-Neu Ltd. ", then " Gelgier-Neu Ltd. " is liable for all liabilities of the legal predecessor " Gelgier Ltd. ".
But that is not the case - as some here wrongly assume at the moment - if the "Geldgier-Neu Ltd." was newly founded, because legally it has just as little to do with " Geldgier Ltd. " as I would have to do with your debts, dear abelinglaekamp , or you with mine. For example, Pokerstars, through TSG Interactive Gaming Europe Limited ("Pokerstars"), which was founded in Malta, has in the past offered unauthorized gambling in Germany via the website www.pokerstars.eu (with a Maltese license) , i.e. it was "unlawful", From a legal perspective, this required the newly founded Reel Germany Limited (website: Pokerstars.de) . Since it is currently not foreseeable how the German GGL will handle the legal behavior of the parent/subsidiary/sister companies towards the German clientele (players) with regard to the licensing of the current license holder if they "disregard legally binding judgments", it is exciting and remains to be seen. In any case, a license revocation due to such misconduct is not exactly a small matter from a legal perspective - I am not liable for my brother's debts or misconduct!
Finally:
It is undisputed among recognized legal experts that "Bill 55" will not be valid. But it hinders the implementation of enforcement in Malta because it creates "hurdles" for the judges responsible for carrying out enforcement in Malta. It gives gambling providers "time and air". The gambling providers' lawyers know that many are put off by "uncertain lawsuits" and may "settle off" with small amounts!
Thank you for the very informative version!
I have a question about this: Well, I strongly assume that these (corrupt) online casinos will not refrain from transferring or taking over the funds of TSG ...LTD in some form, but officially one Legal successors will not be created/displayed. So it can certainly happen that you set up a new xx LTD that doesn't have to take on the liabilities. In such a case you would be left empty-handed. In this scenario, I am of course also assuming that the balance sheet will be manipulated accordingly or that the reserves and other liquid assets will be emptied or that only little will be left behind, so that you will receive a fraction of the amount in dispute, if at all. With all the delaying tactics you had bought yourself enough time to somehow implement this...
If I read through your further explanation, including the potential withdrawal of the German license by the GGL due to the organizational structures of POkerstars, then it is not really promising or rather complicated and unlikely that we should put any hope into it.
How do you see the risk of liquidation and how will you proceed? Thank you!!!
I've now read through all the cases from January 8, 2024 - January 9, 2024 and everything says it was rejected, so all I have to do is wait for the commission and I'm putting my hand in the fire. Nothing will happen 1-2 years ago.
In all cases (Green) or judgment stands:
Reject the request to bring the matter before the Court of Justice of the Union
European for a preliminary ruling as it considers this to be correct
It is not necessary to decide on the merits of the appeal of these proceedings
Interpreting European law.
2. The costs of this episode are borne by the appellant
Do you happen to have any idea what happens in the event of bankruptcy with the funds that have already had to be deposited with the court for enforcement? As far as I know, the claims that are being judicially executed in Malta have already had to be paid into a court account, but are not released from there due to the endless process. Does this money flow back into the bankruptcy estate or is it reserved for the respective person bringing the lawsuit until the proceedings are completed?
I just spoke to my former lawyer.
You can hear him on Spottify"Bill55". He also comments on the problem in Austria, which is completely different to that in Germany.
He told me clearly that it had to do with the fact that in Austria, as I said, the monopoly remained and no licenses could be acquired, and that the casinos were therefore not willing to pay out judgments against themselves and then simply some operators have the bankruptcy declared, whereby I then ask myself where has all the cash flow suddenly gone, which would then be a criminal offense and bankruptcy would have to be rejected and, if necessary, prosecuted.
Sorry but reading your texts really hurts, maybe read it again after typing so that your sentences at least make some sense at the end...
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