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Execution Pokerstars. Apparently, payment is not voluntary (page 77)

3 years ago by marketingskislo
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9 months ago

Unfortunately, this is also wrong. Higher Regional Courts and LGs do not have to follow the BGH and suspend proceedings.


LG Berlin




Online gambling › Online gambling – claim repayment

01/24/2024 ONLINE GAMBLING


Online gambling – claim repayment

by István Cocron

Munich, January 24, 2024. The BGH's decision to suspend proceedings regarding repayment claims in online poker until a decision by the ECJ comes as quite a surprise. Victims of illegal online gambling should not be confused by this decision. "They have a good chance of recovering their losses from banned online gambling, as numerous court rulings show," says lawyer István Cocron, CLLB Rechtsanwälte. He also gives the operators of online casinos no chance of success in the proceedings before the ECJ.

Incidentally, the BGH has not suspended another procedure regarding repayment claims for online sports betting.

Players should not wait for the ECJ's decision before asserting their repayment claims. Two reasons in particular speak against this. On the one hand, it's about not risking the claims becoming statute-barred. On the other hand, it is not just about repayment of losses, but also about interest claims. Lawyer Cocron: "The claims each bear interest at 5 percentage points above the base interest rate of the European Central Bank and the interest period begins when the lawsuit is filed." Waiting for a decision from the ECJ costs the victims of illegal online gambling money.

Even if the BGH has decided to suspend proceedings, the regional and higher regional courts do not have to agree with this opinion. Because it is at their own discretion whether they carry out a procedure. Some courts have already rejected applications from online casino operators to suspend proceedings. Most recently, for example, the Berlin Regional Court rejected such an application for suspension with a ruling dated January 17, 2024.

LG Berlin confirms claim for repayment of losses

In the case, CLLB Rechtsanwälte had sued the LG Berlin on behalf of a player for repayment of his losses from banned online gambling. Between September 2019 and June 2021, he took part in online casino games via the defendant's German-language website and ultimately lost around 33,000 euros. "Since the defendant did not have the license required in Germany during the period in question, we demanded repayment of his loss on behalf of our client," said lawyer Cocron.

The lawsuit was successful. The defendant violated the ban on online gambling in the State Treaty on Gambling. The LG Berlin decided that the contracts with the player were therefore void, so that he was entitled to repayment of his losses.

Stay of proceedings refused

However, the court rejected an application by the defendant to suspend the proceedings until the ECJ made a decision in a comparable case (ref.: C-440/23). It made it clear that there was no doubt that the ban on online gambling contained in the State Treaty on Gambling was compatible with European law. The ban pursues public interest goals such as player protection, combating the risk of addiction or the black market for illegal gambling on the Internet and is therefore compatible with Union law.

The LG Berlin considers the likelihood that the ECJ will come to a different result in the proceedings on case C-440/23 to be low. The court therefore rejected the application for a stay within the scope of its discretion. This view is shared by attorney Cocron, who has successfully represented a large number of victims of illegal online gambling. "Such prospects of success for online gambling providers must be denied," says lawyer Cocron.

The ECJ found the ban to be justified in 2010.


Everyone finally stay relaxed when it comes to Germans. The Federal Court of Justice has already taken a clear position on this twice and just because there is a suspension does not mean that it has changed its opinion, nor has the ECJ.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

Unfortunately, this is also wrong. Higher Regional Courts and LGs do not have to follow the BGH and suspend proceedings.


LG Berlin




Online gambling › Online gambling – claim repayment

01/24/2024 ONLINE GAMBLING


Online gambling – claim repayment

by István Cocron

Munich, January 24, 2024. The BGH's decision to suspend proceedings regarding repayment claims in online poker until a decision by the ECJ comes as quite a surprise. Victims of illegal online gambling should not be confused by this decision. "They have a good chance of recovering their losses from banned online gambling, as numerous court rulings show," says lawyer István Cocron, CLLB Rechtsanwälte. He also gives the operators of online casinos no chance of success in the proceedings before the ECJ.

Incidentally, the BGH has not suspended another procedure regarding repayment claims for online sports betting.

Players should not wait for the ECJ's decision before asserting their repayment claims. Two reasons in particular speak against this. On the one hand, it's about not risking the claims becoming statute-barred. On the other hand, it is not just about repayment of losses, but also about interest claims. Lawyer Cocron: "The claims each bear interest at 5 percentage points above the base interest rate of the European Central Bank and the interest period begins when the lawsuit is filed." Waiting for a decision from the ECJ costs the victims of illegal online gambling money.

Even if the BGH has decided to suspend proceedings, the regional and higher regional courts do not have to agree with this opinion. Because it is at their own discretion whether they carry out a procedure. Some courts have already rejected applications from online casino operators to suspend proceedings. Most recently, for example, the Berlin Regional Court rejected such an application for suspension with a ruling dated January 17, 2024.

LG Berlin confirms claim for repayment of losses

In the case, CLLB Rechtsanwälte had sued the LG Berlin on behalf of a player for repayment of his losses from banned online gambling. Between September 2019 and June 2021, he took part in online casino games via the defendant's German-language website and ultimately lost around 33,000 euros. "Since the defendant did not have the license required in Germany during the period in question, we demanded repayment of his loss on behalf of our client," said lawyer Cocron.

The lawsuit was successful. The defendant violated the ban on online gambling in the State Treaty on Gambling. The LG Berlin decided that the contracts with the player were therefore void, so that he was entitled to repayment of his losses.

Stay of proceedings refused

However, the court rejected an application by the defendant to suspend the proceedings until the ECJ made a decision in a comparable case (ref.: C-440/23). It made it clear that there was no doubt that the ban on online gambling contained in the State Treaty on Gambling was compatible with European law. The ban pursues public interest goals such as player protection, combating the risk of addiction or the black market for illegal gambling on the Internet and is therefore compatible with Union law.

The LG Berlin considers the likelihood that the ECJ will come to a different result in the proceedings on case C-440/23 to be low. The court therefore rejected the application for a stay within the scope of its discretion. This view is shared by attorney Cocron, who has successfully represented a large number of victims of illegal online gambling. "Such prospects of success for online gambling providers must be denied," says lawyer Cocron.

The ECJ found the ban to be justified in 2010.


Everyone finally stay relaxed when it comes to Germans. The Federal Court of Justice has already taken a clear position on this twice and just because there is a suspension does not mean that it has changed its opinion, nor has the ECJ.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

Hello. You have information about a lawyer from Curacao. If you have a legally binding judgment from your country, you can collect the money. Maybe it will be useful for someone. file

Automatic translation:
max888
9 months ago

Unfortunately, the fact that you win 100% against some shitty ltd. operating company doesn't help you much, you can still get problems if you sue several companies, here I know of cases that were partially lost because only the ltd. is liable and the next problem is that your judgment is at best a substitute for toilet paper because it simply cannot be executed at the moment, the shitty limited company can simply be sent into bankruptcy and is liable for nothing anyway


Automatic translation:
chinyuhansinhua
9 months ago

I just said that you win in Austria and that you don't get the money. It's clear to everyone by now anyway.😂

Automatic translation:
max888
9 months ago

If you finance it yourself, it's a win and you don't get the money, but it's also a loss because you're stuck with the costs... the fact that something like this is called the "rule of law" is a joke... the rule of law obviously only applies to natural persons. Legal entities and states evade the rule of law and are not prosecuted.

Automatic translation:
chinyuhansinhua
9 months ago

The loser pays the court costs where I come from.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

The loser pays the court costs where I come from.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

But not if the loser doesn't pay.

Automatic translation:
Stefan123450
9 months ago

That doesn't mean I have to pay anyway.

Automatic translation:
max888
9 months ago

Where you come from, everyone pays their costs - lawyer and court - in advance and at the end of the process the loser should reimburse the winner for these costs - which he doesn't do

Automatic translation:
chinyuhansinhua
9 months ago

In the long term, those who will have to pay costs once the procedures are completed.

It's often the case that such procedures take forever, but since it's a really big sector with so much money at stake, the casinos want to keep going somehow and that becomes more difficult for them when there are such waves and several countries are now taking legal action against them.

It's also clear somehow that they want to calculate what else they will have to pay in terms of compensation for the players. Every company has to calculate, even if they are criminals.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

https://www.advofin.at/blog/

alipirhan
9 months ago

The report has been posted before and is old.

Automatic translation:
Nichtmitmir
9 months ago

https://www.julia-eckhart.at/gluecksspielrecht/


Thank you for sharing the link.

Do you know if she also works with PF?

Did the lawyer give you a time frame for how long it would take for Win2day?

Edited by author 9 months ago
Automatic translation:
9 months ago

https://www.julia-eckhart.at/gluecksspielrecht/


Thank you for sharing the link.

Do you know if she also works with PF?

Did the lawyer give you a time frame for how long it would take for Win2day?

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

Yes she works with PF, I contacted her last week. Seems very competent.

Automatic translation:
khfkhf
9 months ago

Yes she does.

No, no time given.


Lawyer with heart

Automatic translation:
Nichtmitmir
9 months ago

Thank you! I'll try my luck

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

Hello, I finally had my court hearing with jokerstars. Unfortunately, as I found out in court, my lawyer has no plan at all!!! She did not prepare a presentation regarding the amount of the lawsuit... She said I had to provide bank statements for all deposits and withdrawals. Despite the unclear amount of the lawsuit, they made me a settlement offer with 20% of the losses. My lawyer would have preferred to see me accept the offer...

However, I think that the transaction list is enough, so I took it into my own hands and calculated everything myself using Excel. I sent it to her and she also forwarded it to the judge. Currently waiting for reply..

Now that I know that my lawyer has no expertise on the subject and will not acquire it, I have to help myself!

That's why I wanted to ask, can someone help me with the evaluation using Excel?

Does anyone still have a file with which they were able to prove a clear claim amount in court and how is it structured?

Or has anyone ever dealt with the topic of evaluating transaction history?

Thanks in advance!!

Automatic translation:
janfurnari
9 months ago

Normally you get the transaction list from the casinos and it is presented 1:1. According to the GDPR, the casinos are obliged to provide these.


I'm very surprised about the lawyer - did you finance it yourself or through PF? There are law firms that specialize in these cases, and I would use one of these.

Automatic translation:
9 months ago

Deposits minus withdrawals...done.

Automatic translation:
abelingleakamp
9 months ago

Oh well,...so rude??

Automatic translation:
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