Joo Casino - Pelaaja vaatii talletuksen palautusta ja osan hänen voitoistaan palautetaan.

PART 1:

Good morning ,

this is a really delicate situation. I have felt hostage to this day and still am, as my last withdrawal will only be possible on Wednesday 22.04.2020.

Attached are the emails confirming my winnings, but now I make a brief summary of everything.

On my gaming account, following a big win I came to have around 75,000 euros. From there the collapse began.

On the day of 09.03.2020 I receive a first email from a VIP manager, in which I congratulated me on my big win on the casino in question.

My answer was to be able to withdraw my funds and to continue playing later (11.03.2020).

On 12.03.2020 I am denied the possibility of withdrawing as per their terms and conditions and therefore I decide to set the limits per game, so that I can have my balance safe and be able to withdraw it, albeit with very long waiting times long (limits are attached to this complaint).

Magically on 16.03.2020, although I have active limits, I am contacted by the VIP manager, who proposes to increase my withdrawals, going from € 2,500.00 to € 5,000.00 per week. Initially I refuse, and I continue to maintain my balance, but then with their constant insistence I decide to remove the limits, mostly to try to withdraw more funds. (IMPORTANT: THE LIMITS CAN BE REMOVED ARE AFTER 7 DAYS FROM MY REQUEST. THEY CAN REMOVE THEM THE DAY AFTER).

From there I lose everything and arrive to have about 20'000.00 euros on the ocnto. I try again to ask to be able to withdraw them all after showing the amount played and from there I start to notice their non-answers towards me and systematically, by cutting short the conversations simply refer to the limits in the conditions, without ever even referring to the increase of the same, as done previously based on the volume of play made.

PART 2:

My wife finds this casino and decides to open an account. Enter your data as residence etc. Play 1,500.00 euros, as per attachment. Use my credit card, already connected to an account. I realize this, I communicate to the casino to make a refund on the part she played, also because the casino in its terms says not to accept multiple accounts in a family and that they are blocked instantly before they can make the deposit .

Moral: I ask for the return of the amount of 1,500.00 euros played by Miriam, with my credit card, and compensation, relating to my account (part 1), to be discussed with the casino in question, as it violates the relative conditions to protect players.

PARTE 1 :

Buongiorno ,

questa È una situazione veramente delicata. Mi sono sentito in ostaggio fino ad oggi e lo sono ancora , in quanto il mio ultimo prelievo lo potrò fare solo nella giornata di mercoledi 22.04.2020 .

In allegato le mail che confermano le mie vincite , ma adesso faccio un breve riepilogo di tutto.

Sul mio conto di gioco , a seguito di una grossa vincita sono arrivato ad avere circa 75'000 euro. Da li È iniziato completamente il tracollo.

Nella giornata del 09.03.2020 ricevo una prima mail da una VIP manager , in cui ci si congratulava con me per la mia grossa vincita ottenuta sul casinò in questione.

La mia rispsota era quella di poter prelevare i miei fondi e di continuare successivamente a giocare ( 11.03.2020 ). 

Il 12.03.2020 mi viene negata la possibilità di prelevare come da loro termini e condizioni e quindi decido di impostare i limiti per giocata , in modo da poter avere il mio saldo al sicuro e riuscire a prelevarlo , anche se ahime con tempi di attesa molto lunghi ( i limiti sono allegati al presente reclamo ).

Magicamente in data 16.03.2020 , nonostante io abbia dei limiti attivi , vengo contattato dalla VIP manager , che mi propone di aumentare i miei prelievi , passando da 2'500.00 euro a 5'000.00 euro alla settimana. Inizialmente rifiuto , e continuo a mantenere il mio saldo , ma poi con la loro continua insistenza decido di rimuovere i limiti , più che altro per cercare di prelevare più fondi. ( IMPORTANTE: I LIMITI POSSO ESSERE RIMOSSI SONO DOPO 7 GIORNI DALLA MIA RICHIESTA. LORO RIESCONO A RIMUOVERMELI IL GIORNO DOPO ).

Da li perdo tutto e arrivo ad avere sul ocnto circa 20'000.00 euro. provo nuovamente a chiedere di poterli prelevare tutti dopo aver mostrato la somma giocata e da li inizio a notare le loro non risposte nei miei confronti e sistematicamente , tagliando corto le conversazioni si rifanno semplicemente ai limiti nelle condizioni , senza mai neanche più fare riferimento a aumento degli stessi , come fatto in precedenza in base al volume di gioco effettuato. 

PARTE 2 :

Mia moglie trova questo casinò e decide di aprire un conto. Inserisce i suoi dati come residenza eccetera. Gioca 1'500.00 euro , come da allegato. Utilizza la mia carta di credito , già colelgata a un conto. Mi accorgo di ciò , comunico al casinò di effettuare un rimborso sulla parte da lei giocata, anche perchè il casino nei suoi termini dice di non accettare più conti in un nucleo famigliare e che gli stessi vengono bloccati all'istante prima di poter effettuare il deposito. 

Morale : chiedo la restituzione della somma di 1'500.00 euro giocata da Miriam , con la mia carta di credito , e un indennizzo , relativo al mio conto ( parte 1 ) , da discutere con il casino in questione , in quanto viola le condizioni relative alla tutela dei giocatori.

Dear Marquez, 

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problems. I have checked terms and conditions, and this is what I found:

"The maximum withdrawal limit from sign up free spins bonus is 20.00 EUR, 20.00 USD, 30 AUD, 30 CAD, 1,500.00 RUB, 200 NOK, 70 PLN, 0.003 BTC, 0.05 ETH, 0.2 LTC, 0.03 BCH and 6000 DOG."

I understood from the communication which you provided, that you have been offered to make a double-withdrawal. Did you take advantage of it? I’m sorry, but we can’t penalize the casino if you played the rest of the funds. I’m sorry, but I don’t understand which limits you refer to, when mentioning 7 day period.

Furthermore, the issue regarding your wife’s account, this is stated in terms and conditions:

"Each player has the right to create only one personal account per residence address, household, IP address, PC. If you create multiple user accounts, these accounts can be suspended or deleted, and all bets can be void. The player shall not provide access to his user account or allow using the website to any third party including but not limited to minors.

Besides, any returns, winnings or bonuses that the Player received or accumulated during the time when the Duplicate Account was active the account will be forfeited and may be reclaimed by the Casino. The Player will return to the Casino on demand any funds which have been withdrawn from the Duplicate Account."

In a vast majority of casinos, players are only allowed to have one player account per casino. Opening more than one account is against the T&Cs, and duplicate accounts are generally closed after being discovered. Most casinos only check for duplicate accounts as a part of the verification process, which is generally done when a player asks for a withdrawal. Have you received any reply from the casino regarding this issue? Was your wife’s account closed? I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Good morning ,

I state I don't see all my mail correspondence attached, there were about 9 sheets of mail, dated.

I inform you that you have completely misrepresented my requests in part 1 and 2!

Re-explain!

PART 1: I was tricked by casino technicians. They showed up to me when I had about 75'000.00 euros in the account. Promising in case of reaching a certain player status to raise the limits of my withdrawals. I HAVE NEVER REFERRED TO ANY BONUS! they pressed daily with senseless requests. Initially, to avoid losing everything, I set game limits, which could only be unlocked after 30 days. They managed to unlock my limits, on various insistences after about 18 hours, to keep me playing, promising me everything and more. But isn't there a law that casinos have to comply with, where they don't have to put pressure on the players themselves to avoid dropping players into addiction?

I therefore ask for compensation and to withdraw my last 2,500 euros from the present account.

PART 2: premise that my wife has access to all the data she wants, because a free and thinking person, what I contest is not that she accidentally opened an account, but that the casino has accepted deposits from a credit card not linked to the name used for the opening (to simplify: my wife is subject A and has deposited funds with a credit card registered to a subject B, who already had an account in their casino, see part 1). so I ask for a refund on my wife's account (1,500.00 euros deposited), which is still open today (they are still violating the rules despite the fact that I have specifically requested the block)

Buongiorno , 

premetto di non vedere tutta la mia corrispondenza mail allegata , erano circa 9 fogli di mail , datate.

Vi comunico che avete completamente travisato le mie richieste nella parte 1 e 2!

RISPIEGO! 

PARTE 1 : sono stato raggirato dai tecnici del casinò . Si sono palesati a me nel momento in cui avevo circa 75'000.00 euro sul conto. Promettendo in caso di raggiungimento di un certo status di giocatore di alzarmi i limiti dei miei prelievi. IO NON HO MAI FATTO RIFERIMENTO A NESSUN BONUS! pressavano giornalmente con richieste insensate. Inizialmente per evitare di perdere tutto avevo impostato dei limiti di gioco , che potevano essere sbloccati solo dopo 30 giorni. Loro sono riusciti a sbloccare i miei limiti , su insistenze varie dopo 18 ore circa, per farmi continuare a giocare promettendomi di tutto e di più. Ma non esiste mica una legge , a cui devono sottostare i casinò , in  cui per evitare di fare cadere i giocatori nella dipendenza non devono pressare i giocatori stessi?

Chiedo quindi un indennizzo e di prelevare i miei ultimi 2'500 euro sul conto presenti.

PARTE 2 : premessa che mia moglie ha accesso a tutti i dati che vuole , perchÈ persona libera e pensante, quello che contesto io non è che abbia aperto per sbaglio un account, ma che il casinò abbia accettato dei depositi da una carta di credito non collegata al nominativo utilizzato per l'apertura ( per semplificare : mia moglie è soggetto A e ha depositato fondi con carta di credito intestata a un soggetto B, che aveva giÀ un conto nel loro casino , vedi parte 1 ). quindi chiedo il rimborso sull'account di mia moglie ( 1'500.00 euro depositati ) , che ad oggi risulta ancora aperto ( stanno comunque ancora violando le regole nonostante io abbia espressamente chiesto il blocco )

Dear Marquez,

All your forwarded communication is visible for us inside the complaint.

My apology, that I misunderstood the first part. Nevertheless, the withdrawal limit is still the same, even without bonus play. 

"The weekly withdrawal limit is 2500 EUR/USD or it’s equivalent in other currencies, including BTC. The monthly limit is 12000 EUR/USD or it’s equivalent in other currencies, including BTC. All progressive jackpot wins will be paid in full." 

In regard to your wife’s deposit, I was trying to explain that the casino doesn’t check who’s name is on the bank card when the funds are being deposited. It is the player’s responsibility to deposit with a payment method with their name on it.

"Casino does not accept third party payments. You must make deposits only from a bank account, bank cards VISA/MasterCard, payment systems Skrill/NETELLER or other payment methods that are registered in your own name. If we determine during the security checks that you have violated this condition, your winnings will be confiscated and original deposit returned to the owner of the payment account. The Company is not responsible for the lost funds deposited from third party accounts."

Moreover, as I mentioned before: "Only one personal account is allowed per residence address, household, IP address, PC. If you create multiple user accounts, these accounts can be suspended or deleted, and all bets can be void." 

Have you received any update on the refund of the deposit? Thank you in advance for your reply.

Hello ,

so how come to encourage me to play have changed the terms and conditions, raising the withdrawal limit, when not expressly described? Isn't it an immoral thing?

However the casino has kindly told me that depositing with my credit card is not their problem :(

Unfortunately, I am a little scared, as I am afraid that my last withdrawal will block me which I will only be able to carry out on 28.04.2020 and therefore I am stalling.

I do not know how to behave. I can pass on the first part, as I still could not play and keep my balance, but they should at least refund the € 1,500.00 deposited on the other account.

Salve ,

allora come mai per invogliarmi a giocare hanno cambiato i termini e condizioni, alzando il limite di prelievo , quando non espressamente descritto? Non è una cosa immorale? 

Comunque il casinò mi ha gentilmente detto che il deposito fatto con la mia carta di credito non È un problema loro :( 

Io purtroppo sono un pò spaventato , in quanto ho paura che mi blocchino il mio ultimo prelievo che potrò effettuare solo in data 28.04.2020 e quindi sto temporeggiando.

Non so come comportarmi. Posso passare sulla prima parte , in quanto io comunque potevo non giocare e mantenermi il mio saldo , ma loro dovrebbero quantomeno rimborsarmi 1'500.00 euro depositati sull'altro account.

Thank you very much Marquez for your quick reply. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Marquez.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

Hello Marquez, 

I am sorry, there is no reaction from the casino but they are registered in our system so hopefully, they will provide us with the response, soon. 

We would like to ask the Joo Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days.  If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Hello there, 

Dear Casino Guru Team, 

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Dear Simone, 

First of all, I would like to apologize for any inconvenience caused and thanks for your patience.

We have looked into your query and please let us clarify the situation to begin with:

Part 1. The withdrawal limits are a part of our Terms and Conditions which each player accepts upon registration. 

In accordance with General Terms and Conditions of Joo Casino the weekly withdrawal limit is 2500 EUR/USD or it’s equivalent in other currencies. The monthly limit is 12000 EUR/USD or it’s equivalent in other currencies. 

So your withdrawals were processed according to your current limits as stated in our terms.

We confirm that our Vip manager got in touch with you in regards to this matter and tried to come up with the best possible solution for you.

In regard to the limit, any limit implemented shall only be removed upon request of the relevant player or upon expiry of the set duration and shall only be made less stringent upon request of the relevant player. In accordance with our license requirements, we can remove your limits in 24 hours after your request only. We can send the chat transcript proofs, that confirm a direct request from you.

All was done correctly according Responsible Gambling policy in the casino side. 

Part 2. I am sorry to hear that the provided explanation did not meet your expectations. I try one more time explained to you what happened.

As I see, you have a duplicate account in our casino. As Casino Guru Team mentioned before: "Only one personal account is allowed per residence address, household, IP address, PC."

Furthermore, the Joo Casino policy is never to disclose duplicate accounts information. If we did it, we would be breaching every confidentiality and trust rule. We endeavour to protect players personal information and respect player's privacy in accordance with applicable regulations.

The request about account closure should be made from the e-mail address that has been used to make this duplicate account. Unfortunately, we can not close this account by your personal request.

The card that you mentioned has been used in your duplicate account. It means someone has access to your personal payment methods. Please understand that the player is responsible for keeping login information confidential and making sure it cannot be accessed by another person. Including access to personal payment methods.

Despite all the above, your account is still active. 

We hope this is clear and if you need further information, please do not hesitate to let us know.

We also wish you good luck and big wins!

Best regards, 

Joo Casino

In practice they are confirming that they have accepted money from a card of mine on another account and do not want to return it to me (1500 euro), while on the first part they have not tried in any way to find a solution to my withdrawal, but only by continuing to send me emails to convince me to play again (this is not ethically correct towards the player).

m as far as the duplicate account is concerned, since they used my payment method, do they refuse to give me back the money and to block the account? In spite of addresses etc. do they match? You are violating your own rules!

In pratica stanno confermando che hanno accettato dei soldi da una mia carta su un altro account e non me li vogliono restituire ( 1500 euro ) , mentre sulla prima parte loro non hanno cercato in nessun modo di trovare una soluzione al mio prelievo , ma solo continuando a inoltrarmi mail per convincermi a giocare di nuovo ( questo non è eticamente corretto nei confronti del giocatore ).

m per quanto riguarda L account duplicato invece , visto che ha usato un mio metodo di pagamento , loro si rifiutano di restituirmi i soldi e di bloccare L account? Nonostante indirizzi eccetera eccetera combaciano? State violando le vostre stesse regole!

Ps: My wife can access any payment method! Just because she is my wife! It is you, from your controls that should prevent it from being used, don't you think?

Ps : Mia moglie può accedere a qualsiasi metodo di pagamento! Proprio perché è mia moglie! Siete voi , dai vostri controlli che dovreste impedirne L utilizzo, non vi pare?

but are you serious? That is, these are your points

ma fate sul serio? Cioè questi sono punti vostri

Dear Simone,

Kindly be informed that your complaint has now been fully investigated. 

As we told before, your withdrawal was processed according to your current limits as stated in our terms.

# The player must make deposits only from a bank account, bank cards VISA/MasterCard, payment systems Skrill/NETELLER or other payment methods that are registered in own name. 

# It is the player’s responsibility for making sure that access to personal payment methods it cannot be accessed by another person. The player is responsible for keeping personal information confidential.

We'd like to kindly remind you that you read and accepted these Terms and Conditions upon registration.

Consequently, we can not accept the request for the refund of the deposits made on your duplicate account.

Once again, our deepest apologies for the inconvenience this may have caused you. We hope you will get a better understanding of this answer.

But as is possible, the first point runs counter to the second. The contract can never be unilateral, otherwise by law it is to be considered void!

Ma come è possibile , il primo punto va in contrasto con il secondo. Il contratto non può mai essere unilaterale , altrimenti per legge è da ritenersi nullo!

Hello Simone.

We have just finished the investigation of your complaint. I am very sorry to inform you but we believe the casino behaviour was justified. Since you have clearly breached the casino T&Cs and used duplicate accounts, we cannot see anything wrong. Unfortunately, we are rejecting your case.

If you do not agree with our decision you can always contact the licensing authority of the casino. Please, let me know if I can help you with it.

Best regards, Jozef

Casino.Guru