Smokace Casino - Player's winnings confiscated due to bonus terms.

Hello Aleauzzass,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Smokeace Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and if yes, since when exactly? How much was your balance when you finished the wagering of the bonus? Was it automatically converted into real money? Was the balance anyhow capped when the wagering got finished? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about? Would it be possible to forward your betting history to nikolas.b@casino.guru?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Please be aware: At Casino.Guru, we never ask for your casino account password. While we may request information, we never seek access to your account. Please refrain from sharing your password with any third party. We primarily communicate through official threads, occasionally via email for requested supporting evidence or relevant communication.

Ciao,

il mio profilo è verificato dal 18/04/2024. Ho verificato il conto prima di richiedere i prelievi.

Non ricordo il saldo del mio conto una volta scommesso il bonus (penso intorno ai 1/2.000€, ma ricordo che automaticamente il saldo si è trasformato in saldo reale dopo il rigiro dello stesso e ho potuto così giocare ad un’altra slot a cui si poteva giocare con il bilancio real.

il saldo non è mai stato limitato al termine delle scommesse.

l’ultima volta che ho parlato con il casinò è stata ieri per reclamare il loro comportamento ma non ho ricevuto alcuna risposta.

Non saprei come recuperare l’intera cronologia di gioco, perché il sito non permette di scaricarla, ma solo di visionarla a schermo.

Ci tengo a precisare che il sito offre anche dei token che ho convertito in saldo casino quando il mio saldo era intorno ai 30.000€ e che la vincita potrebbe tranquillamente anche derivare dalla scommessa dei token, quindi rendendola valida

Aggiungo che ieri i bonus vip che erano presenti nella mia sezione bonus (che scrivono anche loro nella mail), sono stati eliminati.

Non sono effettivamente più presenti.

Ed ecco perché la situazione diventa ancora più sospetta.

Nel caso vogliate posso inoltrare per email screenshot e registrazione schermo che attesta data e giorno della mia sezione bonus (vuota) attualmente.

grazie

Hello Aleauzzass,

Would it be possible to forward your full deposit, bonus and betting history to nikolas.b@casino.guru?

Ciao Nick, sono passati 7 giorni e siamo riusciti a rimanere al punto 0?

Come già detto il sito non permette di scaricare la cronologia delle scommesse.

Per i depositi posso inviare lo screenshot, ma non ho nemmeno traccia del honus ricevuto.

Sinceramente pensavo che in 7 gg vi foste già messi in contatto con il casinò.

A questo punto spero vivamente che siate in grado di aiutarmi

Hello Aleauzzass,

Once the wagering of the bonus is finished, and the money is transferred to real money balance, the bonus terms should no longer apply. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Hello, Aleauzzass,

I am sorry to hear about your trouble. I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Now I would like to invite the casino representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Smokace Casino team,

Could you please provide us with an explanation of the player's situation in more detail from your point of view?

Which of the casino's Terms and Conditions were breached or applied in this case? Is the casino able to substantiate its claims and decision to confiscate the player's winnings with relevant evidence?

What was the user's balance at the time he met the wagering requirements and converted/moved to a real money balance? Were those winnings reduced to a 5x bonus amount at the time the WRs were met and the balance was converted to real money? If so, why should it be applied more than once to the player's winnings? If his balance was not capped at the maximum cashout amount upon meeting the WRs, did he, anytime during his play, decrease his balance under the 5x bonus amount limit? + Then when does deduction take place if not upon meeting the WRs?

Are players somehow informed, upon meeting the wagering requirements, that they have to withdraw their winnings and deposit them back to continue playing (besides general bonus rules)? Is there any notification or pop-up about it? What is the difference between continuing to play with such winnings and withdrawing and subsequently depositing such winnings back to continue playing?

Can you please provide us with the player's game logs and transaction/bonus history if they are not shown in his game logs?

Feel free to send the necessary evidence to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Hello team,

we hope you're doing well!

We will provide all the information on this incident in detail below. 

2024-04-19 12:48:11 - The client was given a no-deposit bonus of 110 EUR. With a limit on the maximum release amount and withdrawal of funds in case of its wagering. 

2024-04-19 13:03:34 - The client activated this bonus and started playing Down the Rails slot (Pragmatic Play).

2024-04-19 14:34:52 - the client fulfilled the condition of the wager. At the moment of bonus release the client had the sum of 756.75 EUR on his balance, which exceeded the maximum allowed amount of release and withdrawal. After that the client received 550 EUR on his real balance, and the amount of 201.75 EUR was canceled from his balance.

Also we would like to pay attention that as soon as the client played the bonus, he immediately got a pop-up window with the condition and regulations, and the client could not fail to see it, as he needs to close this window and only then he will be able to perform any actions with his account. 

The client closed this pop-up, as we understand not having familiarized himself with the regulations and continued to play this slot. 

Then the client moved on to play another slot Gates of Olympus (Pragmatic Play), where he won a sum that reached 21129.8 EUR. 

2024-04-19 15:00:30 - the client made a withdrawal request in the amount of 3000 EUR, and then continued playing, ignoring the regulations of the project and this bonus. 

According to the regulations of the project and no deposit bonus: 

1.1 The maximum funds amount available to the user after wagering a no-deposit bonus, including a no-deposit bonus received in the Bonus Shop, will be x5 of the bonus amount or funds received from free spins. Any winnings exceeding this amount will be forfeited.

1.2 Please note that you must first claim the winnings received from the no deposit bonus, and then, when withdrawing, make a new deposit in order to continue playing without winning limits.

Thus the client ignored all the terms and conditions of this bonus. 

Accordingly, the amount of the client was brought to the maximum available according to this bonus - 550 EUR, and the balance was canceled. 

Thus, the customer ignored the brand regulations he agreed to when registering, he also ignored the pop-up with the rules. 

We can provide all data and evidence from our side if required. 

Best regards,

Smokace team.

Mi sento di intervenire sulla risposta di Smokace.

Contesto le affermazioni del casinò.

Prima di tutto dal mio saldo non è stata detratta nessuna cifra e tantomeno sono stato avvisato da alcun pop-up.

Contesto anche la cifra con cui son passato da una slot all’altra.

Non sono assolutamente uscito dalla Down Town con il saldo che affermate voi, ma superiore.

Inoltre ho scritto più volte al vostro supporto e manager vip che ho riscattato più volte i token che il sito mette a disposizione, incrementando così il mio saldo con soldi reali (dove nemmeno riportate T&C) e con quelli ho continuato a giocare aumentando ulteriormente il mio saldo.

Non ho MAI ricevuto risposta in merito ai token. Avete addirittura confiscato i token che erano presenti nel mio saldo.

Ripeto e chiedo nuovamente (questa volta pubblicamente) , come fate a dire che il mio saldo, una volta riscattati i token, non sia stato incrementato dagli stessi? Inoltre avete confiscato l’intero importo, appropriandovi indebitamente dei miei token.

Ritengo che la vincita sia reale dal momento che i token son stati riscattati, aggiunti al saldo reale e con quelli vinto ulteriormento. Inoltre non sono MAI stato avvisato con un pop-up del rigiro del bonus, non sono passato da una slot all’altra con il saldo che affermate e non mi è mai stato detratto niente dal saldo.

Aggiungo che scorrendo la mia game histoy ci sono dei buchi, non appaiono moltissime giocate. Fortunatamente ho registrazione schermo e screenshot (che invio).

Inoltre screenshot, il quale è solo un esempio perché mancano moltissime giocate nella game history. Ho screenshot e registrazioni schermo che lo dimostrano.

Grazie

Ciao Branislav,

tramite un’attenta ricerca e grazie alla cronologia di Trueplay Explorer (azienda che fornisce i token per Smokace), sono riuscito a trovare l’intera cronologia delle mie scommesse con i token.

Vi posto l’ultima "sostanziosa" vincita che ho fatto all’Olympus 1000 con l’utilizzo dei token. Ritengo perciò che la vincita sia ASSOLUTAMENTE LEGITTIMA.

Grazie

Thank you for your replies and additional information. We will definitely need more details and supporting evidence from the casino to review the matter sufficiently on our side. Several things are still unclear.

Dear Smokace team,

Thank you for the clarification.

As I asked for it earlier and you offered such an option yourself, can you please provide us with the user's:

• Game logs
• Transaction and bonus history if this data is not visible in the game logs
• More details regarding the token(s) the complainant mentioned, with the information on whether the disputed winnings were accumulated with it
• A screenshot of an example pop-up that is displayed to players upon meeting the wagering requirements and the information on whether there could have been any technical issue with pop-ups at the time the player met the WRs, whether everything worked well and properly

I am aware of the difficulty of my request, however, reviewing all the required data/evidence will help us to move forward with the case significantly.

Feel free to send everything to my email (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Dear team,

hope you're doing well!

We have sent you all details, screenshots and all information as per your request to the e-mail address: branislav.b@casino.guru

If anything else is required of us, please let us know in a reply email. 

Best regards,

Smokace team.

Beh Branislav, penso che l’ultimo screenshot che ho postato dove viene chiaramente riportata la transizione dei token (che sono a tutti gli effetti crypto), parli da sola.

Scrive chiaramente "win" e l’importo vinto con il bet delle crypto, l’ora, il giorno e il gioco in cui sono state scommesse.

Fortunatamente Trueplay riporta l’intera cronologia delle transazioni con la semplice ricerca del codice del mio wallet e le scrive su blockchain in maniera permanente.

Anche se penso non ci sia più alcun dubbio sulla validità della mia vincita, attendiamo comunque la vostra valutazione dopo aver esaminato i documenti inviati dal casinò.

Grazie

Dear Aleauzzass,

hope you're doing well!

2024-04-19 03:53 - You have last received real balance tokens in the amount of 7.55 EUR.

2024-04-19 13:03 - You have activated a bonus of 110 EUR.

These tokens are credited only for playing on the real balance, so everything that you received further in the account of tokens should not go, as the funds on which you played are not available to you according to the regulations of the received bonus, that's why they were also canceled. 

As you were previously informed, you had available to you a withdrawal amount of x5 of your received no deposit bonus, which is 550 EUR. The rest of the amount is unavailable to you, as you ignored the conditions of the no deposit bonus. 

All evidence has been sent to Casino Guru representatives, so we will expect check on their side if you do not agree.

You can also write to the licensing authority, we will be only too happy to prove to you that we strictly comply with the brand regulations and want our customers to do the same. 

Best regards,

Smokace team.

Ciao Smokace,

In realtà io ho gli screenshot dei token che sono stati aggiunti al mio saldo reale, anche dopo la data che fornite voi (19/05/2023 alle h. 3.53).

Li allego per informazione di CasinoGuru.

Inoltre, scrivete qui che i token ricevuti dopo non dovrebbero andare. Ma questa è semplicemente un vostra affermazione ed errore, visto che nel vostro sito i token in questione non riportano nessun termine e condizione.

Grazie

Thank you very much, Smokace Casino Team, for your help and cooperation. I checked your email, screenshots, and supporting evidence with a detailed clarification. In addition, I also checked the information about tokens myself at the casino, and it corresponded with your explanation.

Dear Aleauzzass,

Unfortunately, after gathering all the necessary information, we are closing this complaint as unjustified for the following reasons:

• You were eligible for the maximum cashout from the no-deposit bonus in question of 550€, and you were informed about it by the pop-up upon meeting the wagering requirements for the bonus and its conversion to real money balance; the pop-up shows an exact amount that you can withdraw and how much was deducted from your balance (an amount exceeding the maximum cashout limit), referring to the casino's bonus rules, where everything is stated
• From time to time we solve similar cases with online casinos, and we sided with players if rules were unclear or players were not sufficiently informed about what they should do or what they were allowed to do after bonus WRs were met; therefore, we made deals with such casinos about at least implementing pop-ups at the end of bonus wagering, with the important information, and we accept such bonus rules applying if there is even a pop-up that players have to read and confirm - impossible to bypass or overlook it; especially if we are talking about no-deposit bonuses, free money given by casinos
• If it works like common pop-ups, and you have them forbidden in your browser, unfortunately, it is not the casino's problem
• You accepted the casino's rules, and if anything was not clear to you, you could have asked the casino customer support to make it clear
• Instead of requesting a withdrawal of the 550€, you clicked OK and continued playing, so all the winnings exceeding 550€ became invalid
• Yes, you received some money from the tokens mentioned, however - the last valid token was, as the casino claimed, transferred to your balance before you used the no-deposit bonus in question; there were other tokens converted to real money, but since the winnings based on which you accumulated and exchanged your tokens were invalid, those tokens were also considered invalid and removed from your balance; tokens are collected by making real money bets, which was not the case because you played with funds originating in no-deposit bonus, ignoring the casino's Bonus Terms and Conditions
• According to your game logs, you are not even eligible for the maximum cashout of 550€; when your 3x1,000€ withdrawals were denied, your balance was restored to 550€, which you lost by playing; again - you did not request a withdrawal but continued playing...
• In short - the casino's claims were fully supported by the relevant evidence, and you are not eligible for the disputed winnings; the casino (or its system) acted in accordance with its terms and conditions

I am sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but please, do not hesitate to contact us in the future, if you run into any issues with this or any other casino. We are here to help.

If you are not satisfied with the complaint solution, I recommend you consult the gambling authority that the casino is regulated by. In case of any questions or news from the regulator, feel free to write to me at branislav.b@casino.guru.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.Guru