Loki Casino Online - Player account was closed without explanation.

Ich habe im Casino gewonnen,am schluss wird mein geld nicht ausbezahlt und wird einfach gelöscht und auf 80euro reduziert.

Nach kontakt mit denen, meinen sie nur agb blabla, habe mein konto auch wieder geschlossen bei denen.

We already talked with this player and here is what he told us:

"Hallo,

Ich habe 70Euro auf mein Konto aufgeladen und habe normal gespielt habe auch kein Bonus erhalten. Als ich 4600euro drauf hatte, wollte ich das Geld auszahlen lassen aufeinmal sah ich das ich in einem Bonussystem war, was bedeutete das ich das 40fache vom einsatz erspielen musste, damit ich das Geld auszahlen kann. Als ich bei 3900euro war habe das 40fache erreicht gehabt was mir das ganze auch mit % angezeigt hat. Wo die 100% kamen hat das Casino mein Geld gelöscht und mir 86Euro draufgeladen.

Was einfach nicht fair und falsch ist."

"Ich habe mein konto löschen lassen, den ich spiele nicht auf seiten die mein geld wegnehmen"

Hello, Besar Sejdii!

We are really sorry for that inconvinience! But unfortunatelly we cant accept users from Switzerland because we act via conditions that is established by MGA license.  Our payment department made the refund of your deposit according to Terms and Conditions of Loki Casino:

"4.3 For various legal or commercial reasons, we do not permit accounts to be opened by, or used from, customers based or domiciled in certain jurisdictions. You may not use the Website and/or the Services if you are located in a prohibited jurisdiction. The fact that the Website is accessible in a prohibited jurisdiction, or that the Website is provided in the official language of a prohibited jurisdiction, shall not be construed as condoning the use of the Website in such prohibited jurisdiction. Any attempt to evade this restriction (e.g. by using a VPN, proxy or similar service that masks or manipulates the identification of your real location, or by otherwise providing false or misleading information regarding your location, citizenship, or place of residence, or by making bets or wagers using the Website through a third party or on behalf of a third party located in a prohibited jurisdiction) is a breach of these Terms and may constitute a criminal offence under applicable laws. If it becomes apparent, or we have reasonable grounds to suspect, that you are located in any of the prohibited jurisdictions, this may result in us closing your Account, without an obligation to provide you with advance notice, freezing the funds therein and providing the applicable details to any relevant authorities and you shall compensate us for any damage or loss resulting therefrom."

"28.3 Players accessing the website from and/or resident in certain jurisdictions may be prohibited from doing so because of their location and/or residency. These jurisdictions shall be chosen by the Company at its sole discretion and include, but may not be limited to: Afghanistan, Armenia, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cambodia, China, Comoros, Congo, Denmark, Estonia, Ethiopia, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern Territories, Georgia, Greece, Guadeloupe, Hungary, India, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Martinique, Mauritius, Mayotte, Moldova, New Caledonia, North Korea, Pakistan, Palestine, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Reunion, Romania, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Ukraine, United States, Wallis and Futuna, Western Sahara and Yemen."

Unfortunatelly, refund is only one possible way for us in that situation, because rules are same for any users of casino. 
We do really appreciate you choise of our casino and if some day our License will allow to us accept users from Switzerland we would be really glad to meet you again!

Respectfully, 
Loki Casino Team

Ihr text macht keinen sinn. Als ich mich registriert habe ging ja auch alles ich habe 4600euro gewonnen und ich war irgendwie im bonussystem drinn obwohl ich keinen bonus ausgewählt habe und auch keinen bonus erhalten habe. Der bonus barometer ging auf 100% als ich bei 3900Euro war, wo der Bonusbarometer auf 100% ging und ich das Geld auszahlen wollte war das Geld weg. Im Chat hiess es dann ich hätte eine bonus erhalten und konnte somit nur 200% auszahlen von dem was ich eingezahlt habe, daraufhin hatte ich nur no ca.86euro anstatt die 3900 euro auf dem konto. Wie geht das, das ich spielen kann bis gott weiss wieviel und sobald ich auszahlen will verschwindet das geld, geschweige denn ich habe nie einen bonus aktiviert oder erhalten.

I explained to the casino representatives privately, we are judging complaints based on our fair gambling codex.

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#restricted-countries

Where is written that casino should block players from restricted countries; however, if the casino accepts player from the restricted country by accident, they should treat him as he comes from the allowed country. Pay him all the winnings and block his account.

In your case, the casino should pay you your winnings instead of returning the deposit.

We understand their position too, but we believe that pay the player is much fairer then returns the deposit. Let me explain why. In case that this player loses then the casino keeps his money. In case of a win, casino return the deposit, and that is unfair.

We have no other choice as to mark this complaint as "unresolved". This complaint will have a special category - "against fair gambling codex."  It will have no such a significant impact on the rating because the casino was acting according to their T&C's but still visible for other players, to be sure they do not make the same mistake.

I do not understand what happened with the bonus meter or why is it important. 

Lol ich muss lachen

Hello B.s.  

We are consulting your case with MGA, please be patient I hope soon we will have an answer from them.

Hello B.s.  

We have got an answer from the Malta Gaming Authority. I was last week at the conference in London and spoke with other gaming authorities about your case.  

A moment before I was ready to post the reply casino contacted me it looks like the situation is a bit complicated.

They should post their reply very soon.

Besar Sejdii, I have asked to check all your activity in the Loki.com so being sure that we were honest and unbiased to you as for user of our casino.
And we saw next:
``Player's activity in our Casino started off a 43 euros deposit with a 100% welcome bonus on top of it. Per our Casino's bonus terms, maximum winnings from wagers made with the bonus funds is one time (x1) the amount of the bonus awarded, plus deposit. This means that if a player receives a €1,000 bonus with a €1,000 deposit, the maximum that can be won from said bonus is €2,000.

On the example of current case it would be 86 euros - 43 euros from deposit and the equal, 100%, amount of bonus received.

At the time of the second deposit in the amount of 70 euros, there were funds left from the initial deposit and bonus, therefor, since bonus wasn't wagered or canceled, player continued wagering the amount set under the bonus conditions that was left. As bonus was fully wagered, the amount on the balance converted per the mentioned earlier Bonus Terms.

It also worth mentioning, that greater portion of said winnings was received with a violation of max allowed bet - player won on bonus after betting 72 euros. Per section 10.8 of our Casino's Terms and Conditions, all bets are limited to a maximum of 50 Euros. Should it be technically possible to place a bet or spin above 50 Euros, Cyberplay Management Ltd will reserve the right to cancel the bet and refund the amount wagered, rendering any winnings or losses null.

Respectfully, 
Loki Casino Team
 

Sorry zuerst sagen sie ich bin nicht registriert bei euch, jetzt kommen sie mit dem.

1. Wieso konnte ich bis 4600euro spielen obwohl es ja eigentlich nicht gehen sollte.

2. Ich habe nie ausgewählt das ich einen bonus will.

3. Ich spiele nicht seit gestern im Casino, was mir bei euch passiert ist, ist einfach schwach von eurer Seite aus.

Hätte ich einfach verloren, hätten sie genau nichts gesagt von wegen bonus blabla. 

Wer akzeptiert einen Bonus was er nur das doppelte von der einzahlung auszahlen kann, das macht 0 Sinn.

B.s. we before made a huge effort to get information from as many gaming authorities as was possible to get an opinion about a restricted country problem and get enough data to rule in your favour. (against fair gambling codex classification)  

The evidence, what casino showed us recently, completely changing the situation. From their website is it clear that they indeed have a max winning rule, and it is not hidden rule as you can see. On our website, we also show this bonus condition with bold text. We are now working together with the casino in a deeper understanding of what and how happened. You wrote that you didn't want a bonus, but their bonus is not automatic. Are you sure that you didn't take a bonus?  

We also checked the bonus, but cap on bonuses is nothing terrible, it is entirely on the casino how they set their bonuses. In this case, you have a huge maximum bonus amount but not so high possible winnings, which is OK. I will let you know when we doublecheck all the proofs. Sorry for not so good news but at least we would be able to find out what happened.

Hallo

Ich habe den bonus nicht angewählt. 

Ehrlich gesagt rechne ich auch nicht mehr mit dem geld.

Wie geht das den kunden spielen lassen bis er über 4600 euro hat, sobald er auszahlen will wird das geld gelöscht. Ich spiele seit jahren im casino und so eine verarschung habe ich nie gesehen. 

Hätte ich 1000 euro aufgeladen und verloren, wäre das für das casino auch egal.

Sehr viele casino haben so das man den bonus anwählen muss damit er gültig ist und hier ist er automatisch drauf, genau aus dem grund das ja niemand gewinnen kann.

Und das ist einfach falsch!!

Ich werde auf jedenfall alle dir dort spielen wollen davon abraten

Hello B.s.

I spent lots of time with your complaint trying to understand what happened.  

It looks like you made the first deposit of €43 and got a bonus 43€. This bonus you activated in your account, and it was possible to refuse the bonus and play only with a deposit as you can see on the screen.

Then you made your second deposit of €70 (and in this point, I am not sure how much money was left on your account, but casino said that you still had a bonus balance, we are not sure about the amount - in this point casino switch and don't want to tell us (before they were cooperating flawlessly) + there was a progress bar showing how much money you still need to wager)

After this second deposit, you continued to play with an active bonus. This bonus has maximum withdrawal 1x (bonus + deposit). After you won big winnings (with €72 bet which was a violation of max bet rule) at some point, you finished the wagering and casino deducted the rest of the winning from your account. So your account balance was set to €86.

What we are trying to understand: Did you know that your bonus is still active? We think that bonus, where you can win maximum 2x what you deposit, is not an advantage for a player. However, it is up to the casino how they set their bonuses, and we don't want to criticize them for that.

We want to be sure that casino doesn't use this max win rules in conjunction with other deposits to take an unfair advantage.

Ich wusste nichts von einem Bonus und bei der 2. einzahlung habe ich auch keinen Bonus erhalten, was auch richtig wäre da ich keinen bonus wollte.

Was ich nicht verstehen kann und will ist wieso kann ich über 4600euro gewinnen obwohl ich nur maximal das doppelte vom einsatz hätte gewinnen können. Als ich mein Guthaben auszahlen wollte wurde mein geld gelöscht.

Ich erhoffe mir nichts mehr, aber das ist einfach eine frechheit.

Ich könnte auch eine onlinecasino seite aufmachen und scheiss bonusreglement einsetzen damit die spieler keine chance haben zu gewinnen, aber das ist nicht fair.

Hello B.s.  

Finally, we have all the data, and we can complete the story.

First deposit: you deposited 43€ and get a bonus of 43€ with maximum win rule of 1x (deposit +bonus) total 86€

Second deposit: you deposited 70€ and refused a bonus, but you had a 0.15€ balance left from the first deposit. The casino didn't cancel that bonus but instead lure you into a trap.  

They assumed that you want to finish the wagering of the first bonus (but who on earth would do that and for what reason)

So because your bonus was still active, they apply also maximum winnings rule (86€) which is entirely predatory.

Nobody who will make a €70 deposit and refuse bonus would like to limit his winnings on €86 voluntarily.

About this situation, we had a lot of arguing with a casino representative. She told me that they created an environment and players should take care of the rules that you saw a bonus progress bar and if you didn't want a bonus you could cancel it anytime.  

I consider this argumentation as bullshits, in good casinos, if the player makes a deposit and there is still some tiny balance left on his account, the casino void the bonus. In case that there is more bonus balance left, the casino should inform the player that he has still some balance left and ask him what he would like to do. (abandon bonus, keep the bonus)

However, they have right in case of your €72 bet:  

When your balance reached €1641.24 you made a 72€ bet and won but, according to rules:

10.8 of our Casino's Terms and Conditions, all bets are limited to a maximum of 50 Euros. Should it be technically possible to place a bet or spin above 50 Euros, Cyberplay Management Ltd will reserve the right to cancel the bet and refund the amount wagered, rendering any winnings or losses null.

This single bet should be cancelled, but all other bets which not exceed €50 are OK.

So our point of view is that this casino owes you €1600 +- other bets you made. Their "environment" should fix this situation, or we will be considering this as unfair bonus terms.

In case they refuse to pay you, we will assist you in filing a complaint to Malta Gambling Authority.

Das ist oke 1600 bin ich einverstanden

Dear Loki Casino representatives: 

Did you consider what I wrote in my last post?

We would like to ask the Loki Casino Online to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Unfortunately, after a lot of dialogues with Casino representatives, we were unable to convince them that this player should be paid and their "environment" is set wrongly.  

The most persuasive arguments from casino side are that the player has a visible progress bar of the bonus and that the player can cancel the bonus anytime.

From our perspective:

When a player has only little amount of money on his account + active bonus and makes another deposit, this bonus should be automatically abandoned. Mainly because of maximum winnings rules from all Loki Online Casino bonuses (max win = 1x (bonus+ deposit)

This rule may lead to absurd situations like when player deposit €50 and take a first deposit bonus and with small amount of money left from the first deposit bonus make a second deposit of €1000. However, with still active first deposit bonus he may win a maximum €100.

Player agreed and will contact the MGA.

Ich habe die MGA informiert, warte auf Antwort

I am extending the timer for another 7 days. We are still waiting for another answer from the Malta Gaming Authority.

Unfortunately, we still didn't get a respond from MGA. I am extending the timer last time for another seven days.

Unfortunately, we didn't get the second respond from MGA when we confront them with the hypothetical situation how absurd situation can this "environment" create.  

In the first reply from MGA, they wrote:

Regrettably, we have no control over the allocation of bonuses, free spins or any other similar promotional material given by the gaming operators, since these are considered to be a business decision.  

Because they didn't respond on our second message, we are unable to help B.s. We try to negotiate the situation with the casino, but their statement remains the same. The player should cancel the bonus before making the deposit. (€0.15 was that time left on his account) which caused that on his next winnings were applied 1x (bonus + deposit) maximum winnings rule (my opinion is that this is a very low cap for maximum winnings)

We believe that in this case player has partially right, and casino should pay him €1641.24.

The money value of complaint was lowered to €1641.24 because player breached a rule 10.8 and got winnings from more than €50 bet.

Situations like this we consider as predatory and against fair gambling codex.

Therefore we are closing this complaint as "unresolved."

We’ve reopened this complaint as per the casino's request. We would like to give this case one more chance to get resolved and help both involved parties to reach to a satisfactory conclusion.

Hello  dear player

We have reviewed your appeal again and would like to come to terms on this case.

Dear player,

please contact our payment department as soon as possible and we will provide all the necessary help in resolving this issue. 

Kind regards

LokiCasino Team  

hallo

leider kann ich mich nicht mehr anmelden.

wo soll ich mich melden?

Thanks for answering

 our e-mail: en_support@lokicasino.email

Additionally, in the near future we will send you a letter with more detailed information

Please, stay in touch with us and with the payment department so that we can quickly resolve this situation

LokiCasino Team  

Hello

Due to the technical reasons associated with payment providers, we were unable to process first withdrawal request.

We have suggested alternative methods and keeping in touch.

LokiCasino Team  

B.s. please write to me here when you receive the payment.

Hello Besarsejdii

Our team wants to inform you, we've withdrawn the balance to your card. 

Please, check your wallet and confirm receiving the funds.

LokiCasino Team  

Hallo,

Ich habe 1600 Euro von Ihne heute erhalten.

Leider sind es nicht die 3900Euro aber imerhin was

Vielen Dank

I want to thanks both sides to find dialogue and eventually solve the complaint.

Thank you for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution center. I will now mark it as 'resolved' in our system.

Besarsejdii, the reason why it is €1641.24 I explained above, and I hope you are satisfied with the resolution.