Art Casino - Pelaaja kiistää ilmaispyöräytyskäytännön epäoikeudenmukaisen soveltamisen.

Hello,

Unfortunately, this casino is using their Free spins policy unfairly, I will try to explain the situation as short as possible, even though it is complex to keep up with the continuation of events. I will try to put events in the numerical order.

1.     I deposited 100 EUR to my account on 2023-10-17. I played Temple Tumble game and was very lucky, so at the end of the session I won 1154,13 EUR.

2.     I requested two separate withdrawals: 1000 EUR and 154 EUR.

3.     I decided to use the Loyalty Free Spins promotion, 100 spins on The Golden Owl of Athena (Note, these are not no-deposit free spins, because you actually have to deposit funds and play a lot in order to gather points and get the spins). At the end of that session I had 21,73 EUR (I won 21,60 EUR+0,13 EUR my own balance).

4.     I kept on playing with the funds in game Temple Tumble. I was once again lucky and at the end of the session I had 313,08 EUR in my balance.

5.     This is the important one: I cancelled my withdrawal request of 154 EUR (which I won from 100 EUR deposit from my own funds) and requested for 467 EUR withdrawal.

6.     On 2023-10-18, way after the 24 hour timeframe of withdrawals in this casino I contacted them regarding my withdrawal, live chat said that I should receive my winnings soon.

7.     I decided to try my luck and cancelled the 467 EUR withdrawal and started playing again in Temple Tumble. Note, I never went over to the so called ‘bonus’ part of the balance (lowest balance was 354,04 EUR while playing, so my own funds did not go away at any point).

8.     At the very end of the session my total balance was 2962 EUR.

9.     I requested three separate withdrawals of 1000 EUR, 1000 EUR and 962 EUR.

10.  I only received withdrawal of 1000 EUR requested on 2023-10-17.

11.  All three withdrawals (in the amount of 2962 EUR were forfeited). Making the total balance from 2962 EUR to 50 EUR (so called maximum withdrawal amount from non-deposit free spins).

12.  The correct way should have been to forfeit 262,95 EUR (312,95 EUR (winnings from the Loyalty free spins) – 50 EUR (maximum withdrawal limit).

13.  Therefore, closing balance should have been 2699,05 EUR.

So, to sum up: I had positive balance before the Loyalty Spins, I also used my funds to win and never went past the line of my own funds, so bonus amount was never actually used to make the winnings.

Besides of all the mentioned things, withdrawal was late according to Terms and Conditions, there is no mention of Loyalty Spins having maximum withdrawal amount of 50 EUR (these are not no-deposit Free spins as I have mentioned above).

You can clearly see from all the information provided that my own funds were used to win this amount and not the bonus money, therefore funds should not have been forfeited.

If any additional information or snips are needed, please contact me, I have all the information. I also contacted the casino regarding this issue and they are sticking with the 50 EUR maximum withdrawal rule, so I did not manage to settle this with them.

Dear Inrel19,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I'm really sorry to hear about your issue.

I have checked the casino's General Bonus Terms and Conditions, and this is what I found:

10.1.2 Bonuses that are received with a no-deposit requirement (free spins, cashback, cash reward, money reward or any other form of received bonus or cashback) have a maximum withdrawal limit of 50 EUR or equivalent in other currency. In case bonus received is more than 50 EUR, maximum withdrawal in that case is 5 times received amount. Bonuses that comes with a deposit requirement (10.2., 10.3) have limits on withdrawal of 20 times deposit amount. Any balance above maximum withdrawal amount is forfeited manually once player reach maximum withdrawal amount or when player requests withdrawal.

I understand your perspective that you received the spins as part of the loyalty program. However, bonuses and rewards related to loyalty programs are essentially gifts from the casino, so activating loyalty free spins is actually viewed as activating a free bonus. This means that the maximum win limit applies.

Do I understand correctly that the session of Temple Tumble when you won 313,08 EUR, was accumulated from loyalty spins?

Could you please explain this part of your gameplay in more detail?

7.     I decided to try my luck and cancelled the 467 EUR withdrawal and started playing again in Temple Tumble. Note, I never went over to the so called ‘bonus’ part of the balance (lowest balance was 354,04 EUR while playing, so my own funds did not go away at any point).

According to the General Bonus Terms and Conditions:

10.1.3 When you play with a bonus, funds are first taken from the real money balance, and after that from the bonus money balance. We reserve the right to apply a rollover of at least 5 (five) times the deposit amount at our sole discretion as per AML policy for any bonus.

Could you please specify when exactly you finished wagering with loyalty spins?

I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards

Veronika

Hello,

Yes, the part about Free spins I do understand, although I think it would be wise for the casino to include the Loyalty Free Spins in this section, so there is no confussion for the players on how much they can win, because the winnings have no wagering requirement, therefore you think that those are wager free and maximum withdrawal free.

Yes, 313,08 EUR was from the loyalty free spins.

Point 7. basically says that I used my own funds for the gameplay, as you can see from the amounts, bonus balance was never used for the spins/winnings, therefore no bonus rules can be applied to the final winnings.

This is the point that frustrates me the most, because casino is trying to apply Free spins rules to the amount that was from a deposit with no bonus attached to it, therefore no rules can be applied. It is unfair and they are clearly trying not to pay the actual winnings.

I would be totally fine if my balance would have dropped below my actual balance (not bonus balance), then bonus rules can definitely be applied, because I have then actually used the bonus balance. You can also clearly see from their Terms and Conditions that funds are first taken from the real money balance, and after that from the bonus money balance.

As mentioned above, the loyalty free spins were wager free.

Would it be possible to send me your whole transaction history as well as your gaming history, please? My email address is veronika.l@casino.guru.

Hello, Veronika. I requested gaming history from the casino, as I cannot save it myself. I will send it to you with the transaction history whenever I will receive it from the casino.

Hello, it took me some time to copy paste all of the gaming history, as the casino said that I can do it myself, but now I have sent you Transactio and Gaming History via provided email.

Thank you very much, Inrel19, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hi Inrel19,

I have reviewed your case and understand the situation. Allow me to reach out to the casino and make every effort to assist you. I would like to invite Art Casino to join the conversation and contribute to the resolution of this complaint.

Hi there,

Player already turned to our license issuer regards this case so we will wait for their response.

Short overview;

Player managed to generate winnings only with the help of free spins. His balance was 0.13 cents before claiming FS.

During his gameplay when balance was above 300 eur, he cancelled withdrawal of 156 eur and player further played. Free Spins winnings were all the time part of players balance and as such limited to 50 eur maximum withdrawal. His cancelled withdrawal did not help him at anytime to get to final balance.

At the balance of little less than 3k eur, player requested withdrawal.

• 156 Eur was returned to player as winnings from his clean deposit before claiming FS.
• 50 Eur was set to his balance as max wd amount from winnings generated from free spins.

Also we would like to know casino.guru that player provided false statements which are part of evidences to license regulator and which give us enough reasons te terminate players account without arguing.

We really do not see any reason to make such hard decision at this point.

Rgd

Artcasino Team

Hello Art casino,

It is unfortunate to read your reply and to see that you are claiming that I have provided false statements.

I did in fact contact the regulator, because it usually takes them a very long time to respond and I want this issue to be solved as soon as possible.

Claims about aquired 300+ EUR balance are true, as well as the claim about cancelled withdrawal. What you fail to mention is that after the cancellation I requested another withdrawal. And I waited for it to be confirmed for more that 24 hours, in which the casino failed to reduce the balance of aquired funds with FS to maximum 50 EUR, leaving total balance to 204 EUR. You had plenty of time to correct the balance accordingly, as your website says 'Instant withdrawals', which, once again, you failed to do.

'His cancelled withdrawal did not help him at anytime to get to final balance.' This claim is totally false. My balance did not go down past the limit of 154 EUR (In fact, 204 EUR, because of the max 50 EUR from the FreeSpins) at any point, my gameplay clealy shows that. Please provide with the proof on how my withdrawal did not help at any point.

I would have been totally fine with this statement if:

a) I would have never cancelled the withdrawal and used my raw deposit funds.

b) My balance would have dropped to the point where I actually used the balance of FreeSpins.

Neither one of options occured in my gameplay.

'Also we would like to know casino.guru that player provided false statements which are part of evidences to license regulator and which give us enough reasons te terminate players account without arguing.' I would like to know what false statements did I provide? I sent the very same message to you prior to contacting the regulator and was waiting for your response. As you failed to respond and ignored the message, I took action.

I am surprised on how this casino just drops random statements without any proof. This is extremely unfair behavior.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Inrel19,

Let me ask you one more thing. You stated that you won 21,60€ from the loyalty spins and you used this amount together with 0,13€ real money to get to winnings of 313,08€. Were these funds displayed as real money balance or bonus balance? Was the max win cap of 50€ applied to your balance at some point (before you cancelled the pending withdrawal of 154€)?

Hello Peter!

As far as I can remember these funds (313,08€) were displayed as real money balance.

The max win rule was not applied until my big winnings (of almost 3000 EUR). It was not applied when I requested 467 EUR and not even over 24 hours later upon requesting the withdrawal. Casino only informed me when I contacted chat multiple times and wrote to their email about very late withdrawal (they promote Instant withdrawals and in the past they were extremely fast).

Thank you Inrel19 for your reply.

Dear Art Casino team,

Can you confirm that the winnings from the loyalty spins are displayed as real money? If this is the case, we don't see a reason why the winnings were capped. As soon as the bonus is turned into real money, the bonus rules shouldn't apply (unless there's a huge warning for the player informing them what happens next) otherwise it only serves as a trap for casual players. If they see real money in their account, they can't suspect that bonus rules/restrictions will apply.

Hi Peter,

There is absolutely no trap on no deposit bonus - free spins in this case.

It is clearly written in bonus TC following.

10.1.2 Bonuses that are received with a no-deposit requirement (free spins, cashback, cash reward, money reward or any other form of received bonus or cashback) have a maximum withdrawal limit of 50 EUR or equivalent in other currency. In case bonus received is more than 50 EUR, maximum withdrawal in that case is 5 times received amount.

Free Spins comes with no wager requirements which means winnings go to real balance and are withdrawable immiedetely only with maximum amount which in this case is 50 eur. Whether player decide to play further does not change maximum WD amount.

It is absolutely the same bonus by the rules as registration - No deposit bonus (free spins) where maximum withdrawal amount is defined and limited.

We do have such bonuses all the time with casino.guru and never really had any issues on artcasino and sisters casino at all.

Artcasino Team

Dear Art Casino team,

Since the winnings from the spins went straight to the real money balance, why can't the players continue playing with this balance just like with actual real money? Try to look at the user experience here. The player plays the free spins, the winnings are displayed in real money balance. A casual player would never suspect that there is a bonus condition that may be used at some point when they win big. Is there any warning stating something like "You must withdraw your funds after you play the free spins otherwise we will not let you win more than 50€ with your real money balance"? I'm afraid, the player will have to get paid their winnings in full for this complaint to be resolved.

Hi Peter,

Please note once again that as a warning there are written Bonus T&C which should be read by any player.

To avoid any doubts, player was playing all the time with the winnings generated from No deposit Bonus - Free Spins and his cancelled withdrawal in-between did not help him at any moment.

Whether player did not cancel withdrawal, still player would win same amount and maximum withdrawal amount should apply.

Until now there was absolutely no such cases that problem is raised by forfeited winnings when player reached maximum withdrawal amount even when player decide to play further and gain additional winnings.

So far we have not received a single argument on which basis rule of Maximum Withdrawal Amount should be voided.

Artcasino Team

Hello,

I would just like to react to the latest reply from the casino.

They are saying that T&S should be read by every user, but it seems that the casino themselves do not read that.

They constantly say the maximum win of 50 EUR and that my raw deposit did not help at all.

I see two problems now:

1. Funds from loyalty spins were never in the bonus balance (they have that for other bonuses).
2. How my own funds (from raw deposit) did help my winnings when I used them? Casino should be reminded of their T&S: 10.1.3 When you play with a bonus, funds are first taken from the real money balance, and after that from the bonus money balance. We reserve the right to apply a rollover of at least 5 (five) times the deposit amount at our sole discretion as per AML policy for any bonus.

I do not understand how can they apply come random parts of T&S and completely ignore other. This is such an unfait behavior, I have never experienced such behavior.

Hi Peter,

Please be informed the case was properly investigated and explained and it is sufficiently resolved and closed.

Player was already informed by relevant institution.

Looking forward to close/reject this complaint asap.

Artcasino Team

Dear Art Casino,

I have contacted the regulator to explain the decision more in detail, as you ignored my questions to understand the situation better. I have asked many times for you to answer a few simple questions and your answer was ‘Our decision is final’. Case is still ongoing, therefore it should not be closed.

Artcasino Team,

Thank you for the update. From our experience the gaming authority only checks if your decision follows the casino's T&Cs, it was pretty clear from the beginning that it would decide in your favor. They don't focus on the fairness of the situation or consider the user experience. Even though we realize that this might be the industry standard in many casinos, we are trying to push the industry towards safer and fairer gambling. Once the bonus funds become real funds, the players should either be allowed to use them as real funds or if you want them to make a withdrawal and redeposit them, they should be better informed.

Dear Inrel19,

Unfortunately, despite long discussions on Skype, I wasn't able to persuade the casino to pay you your winnings. I’m afraid there is nothing else we can do. I will mark the complaint as "unresolved" in our system. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in the rating caused by unresolved complaints might help to change the casino's approach. If the casino decides to reconsider, we will reopen the complaint, and you will be notified by email. I am sorry I could not be of more help on this occasion.

Best regards,

Peter

Hello Peter,

thank you for your response and thank you very much for all of your time and effort!

Although this is not the outcome I expected and wished for, the negative rating and unresolved complaint will be a big alarm for the other players to not waste their time and money in this unfair casino.

Many thanks again from my side!

We’ve reopened this complaint at the request of Art Casino. We received information with supporting evidence stating that the player agreed to an offer made by the casino and therefore we consider the issue to be resolved.