pre 4 meseci
OdgovoriCitiraj0
Da li možete da me kontaktirate i pomognete mi sa KTM-om?
Are you able to contact and help me with KTM?
Hej,
Nadam se da ste dobro i da se klonite ovih zlih sajtova...
Dobio sam konačnu presudu od strane FOS-a u slučaju myh protiv Starling. Možete je pročitati ispod. Označio sam relevantne delove podebljanim slovima za buduće potrebe. Ono što me nervira jeste to što su ignorisali činjenicu da je dotična veb stranica (magicwin) očigledno prevara (pruženi su brojni dokazi), tako da ovo NIJE bilo kockanje, već prevara. Dotični ombudsman je takođe protivrečio samom sebi u prethodnom slučaju koji sam citirao, kao i ignorisao dokaze da bi povraćaj sredstava bio uspešan.
Tužiću Starling zbog ovoga. Nisu u pravu, a ni ombudsman nije.
Moja žalba direktno protiv Masterkarda je još uvek u toku.
Predložio bih da svako ko je imao problema sa bankom koja koristi Masterkard, uputi žalbu njima. Ova žalba treba da objasni kako nedostatak i nedavna promena pravila o povraćaju sredstava kod Masterkarda sprečava ljude koji su zaista prevareni/prevareni od strane lažnih kazino sajtova da imaju bilo kakvu mogućnost da vrate svoj novac.
Masterkard pokriva svaki drugi oblik prevare. Visa pokriva sve oblike prevare, uključujući i ovu.
Ako se dovoljno nas žali, možemo nešto da uradimo povodom ovoga.
Više od 20 hiljada funti koje sam sada izgubio na ovim sajtovima mi više nije važno, to je prošlo i ja to prihvatam. Samo ne želim da bilo ko drugi pati kao ja.
Hey,
Hope you're all ok and staying away from these evil sites.....
I've had my final adjudication from the FOS with myh case against Starling. You can read it below. I've highlighted the relvant parts in bold for future reference. What irks me, is that they have ignored the fact that the website in question (magicwin) is blatantly a scam site (copious evidence provided) so this was NOT gambling, but fraud. The Ombudsman in question has also contradicted himself in the previous case I quoted, as well as ignoring evidence that a chargeback would have succeeded.
I'm going to take Starling to court over this. They are wrong, and the ombudsman is as well.
My complaint against Mastercard directly is still ongoing.
I would suggest that anyone here who has had problems with an issuing bank that uses Mastercard, directs a complaint at them. This complaint should explain how Mastercards lack of, and recent changing of, chargeback rules prevents people who have genuinely been scammed/defrauded by fake casino sites, having any from of redress to get their money back.
Any other form of fraud is covered by Mastercard. All forms of fraud, including this one, are covered by Visa.
If enough of us complain, we can do something about this.
The £20k+ I have now lost to these sites doesn't matter me now, it's gone and I accept that. I just don't want anyone else to have to suffer as I have.
Žalba
Gospodin K se žali da Starling Bank Limited („Starling") nije podnela zahtev za povraćaj sredstava za njega
transakcije koje su se odvijale na njegovom računu.
Šta se desilo
Gospodin K nam je rekao da ima istoriju problema sa kockanjem. Da bi se zaštitio od toga,
stavio je blokadu za kockanje na svoj bankovni račun kod Starlinga i registrovao se kod
GEMSTOP. Međutim, u junu i julu 2024. godine, gospodin K. je imao recidiv i kockao se
2.800 funti na neregulisanim veb-sajtovima za kockanje sa njegovog Starling naloga.
Gospodin K je kontaktirao Starlinga rekavši da su ove transakcije prihvaćene samo zato što je trgovac
Veb stranice su koristile pogrešan kod kategorije trgovca („MCC"), što je zaobišlo kockanje
blokade koje je imao na mestu. Zamolio je Starling da obradi povraćaj sredstava za ove transakcije, ali
rekli su da nema prava na povraćaj novca za transakcije sa kockanjem.
Gospodin K se žalio i rekao da je žrtva prevare i da veb stranice i njihovi
procesori plaćanja su se pogrešno predstavili jer bi transakcije imale
bili blokirani da su koristili ispravne MCK naloge.
Starling nije mislila da su uradili bilo šta pogrešno, pa je gospodin K. stvar uputio našim
usluga. Jedan od naših istražitelja je ispitivao šta se dogodilo, ali nije preporučio da
Starling je morao da učini bilo šta da stvari ispravi. Smatrao je da je Starling u pravu što nije podigla
povraćaj sredstava jer nije bilo ničega u pravilima za povraćaj sredstava operatera šeme kartica što
dozvolio je ovo, uzimajući u obzir okolnosti zahteva gospodina K.
Gospodin K se nije složio sa našim istražiteljem i zato je njegova žalba prosleđena meni
pregled.
Šta sam odlučio – i zašto
Razmotrio sam sve raspoložive dokaze i argumente da bih odlučio šta je pravedno i
razumno u okolnostima ove tužbe.
Svestan sam da sam sumirao događaje iz ove žalbe. Ne želim da budem neljubazan ovim.
– to samo odražava neformalnu prirodu naše službe. Od mene se zahteva da brzo donosim odluke i
uz minimalnu formalnost. Ali želim da uverim gospodina K. i Starling da sam sve pregledao
u dosijeu. Ako ne komentarišem nešto, to nije zato što to nisam razmotrio. Jesam
koncentrisao se na ono što smatram ključnim pitanjima, a što mi naše ovlašćenja dozvoljavaju da uradim.
Primećujem da je gospodin K. u jednom trenutku rekao da nije primio nikakvu robu ili usluge od
dotični trgovci/veb stranice. Ali gospodin K je takođe rekao da je u vreme kada je napravio
transakcijama, bio je svestan da koristi veb stranicu za kockanje i da su transakcije bile
kockarske. Dakle, zadovoljan sam što je dobio usluge za koje je plaćao.
Međutim, gospodin K je takođe rekao da je jedini razlog zbog kojeg je mogao da obavi ove transakcije bio
jer su MCC-ovi povezani sa njima bili navedeni kao nešto drugo osim kockanja, što
značilo je da blokade i druge zaštitne mere koje je uspostavio nisu ih sprečile
od pravljenja.
Gospodin K smatra da je Starling trebalo da pokrene postupak povraćaja sredstava jer su trgovci i
Ko god je bio uključen u obradu njihovih transakcija koristio je pogrešne MCK-ove. Relevantni
Operator šeme kartica ovde je bio Masterkard. Naša služba je direktno kontaktirala Masterkard.
o scenarijima u kojima su trgovci i/ili njihovi prihvatioci/procesori plaćanja koristili
pogrešni MCK-ovi za prikrivanje transakcija kockanja. Masterkard nam je direktno potvrdio da
Ne postoje prava na povraćaj sredstava za bilo koju vrstu kockarskih transakcija, kao što su one koje je izvršio gospodin K.
napravljeno, i nije bilo primenljivih kodova za povraćaj sredstava tamo gde su bili pogrešni MCK
korišćeno. Masterkard nam je takođe potvrdio da je, ukoliko je banka poput Starlinga podnela
zahtev za povraćaj sredstava u okolnostima kao što je slučaj gospodina K., ovaj ne bi bio uspešan
da li im je ovo poslato da odluče.
Takođe sam razmotrio ono što je gospodin K rekao o tome da je bio žrtva prevare. Međutim, ja sam
gore pomenuto da je gospodin K dobio usluge koje je tražio i odobrio, a to je da
Prebacio je novac na dotične veb stranice da bi se kockao. Dakle, ne mislim da pravila
Ovde se primenjuju povraćaji sredstava u vezi sa prevarom.
Svestan/a sam da je gospodin K. uspešno podneo zahteve za povraćaj sredstava kod drugih banaka. Međutim.
to je bila odluka koju su donele te banke. To ne znači da je Starling bio obavezan da to uradi
isto, međutim. Takođe sam primetio da se gospodin K. osvrnuo na druge odluke koje su doneli ombudsmani
(od kojih je jedna bila moja), gde su odluke potvrđene u korist potrošača.
Međutim, okolnosti svakog slučaja su različite i razmatram specifične
okolnosti žalbe gospodina K. i da li je Starling postupila pravedno.
Naravno da cenim uticaj koji je ova stvar imala na gospodina K., posebno zato što je on preduzeo
nekoliko mera kako bi pokušao da se zaštiti od kockanja. Međutim, mogu samo da procenim
Da li mislim da su Starling pogrešile što nisu podnele zahtev za povraćaj novca za njega. I, imajući u vidu
Imajući u vidu šta nam je Masterkard direktno rekao o ovome, zadovoljan sam da Starling nije reagovao
nepravedno kada su odlučili da ne pokrenu povraćaj sredstava u ime gospodina K.
The complaint
Mr K complains that Starling Bank Limited ("Starling") didn’t raise chargebacks for him for
transactions that took place on his account.
What happened
Mr K has said to us that he has a history of problem gambling. To protect himself from this,
he placed a gambling block on his bank account with Starling and registered with
GAMSTOP. However, in June and July 2024, Mr K had a relapse and gambled around
£2,800 on unregulated gambling websites from his Starling account.
Mr K contacted Starling saying these transactions were only accepted because the merchant
websites used an incorrect Merchant Category Code ("MCC"), which bypassed the gambling
blocks he had in place. He asked Starling to process chargebacks for these transactions, but
they said there were no chargeback rights for gambling transactions.
Mr K complained and said he was the victim of a scam and that the websites and their
payment processors had misrepresented themselves because the transactions would have
been blocked had they used the correct MCC’s.
Starling didn’t think they’d done anything wrong and so Mr K referred the matter to our
service. One of our investigators looked into what happened but didn’t recommend that
Starling needed to do anything to put things right. He felt Starling were correct not to raise
chargebacks as there was nothing within the card scheme operator’s chargeback rules that
permitted this, taking into account the circumstances of Mr K’s claim.
Mr K didn’t agree with our investigator and so his complaint has been passed to me to
review.
What I’ve decided – and why
I’ve considered all the available evidence and arguments to decide what’s fair and
reasonable in the circumstances of this complaint.
I’m aware I’ve summarised the events of this complaint. I don’t intend any discourtesy by this
– it just reflects the informal nature of our service. I’m required to decide matters quickly and
with minimum formality. But I want to assure Mr K and Starling that I’ve reviewed everything
on file. If I don’t comment on something, it’s not because I haven’t considered it. I’ve
concentrated on what I think are the key issues, which our powers allow me to do.
I note Mr K said at one point that he didn’t receive any goods or services from the
merchants/websites in question. But Mr K has also said that at the time he made the
transactions, he was aware he was using a gambling website and the transactions were
gambling ones. So, I’m satisfied he received the services he was paying for.
However, Mr K also said the only reason he was able to make these transactions was
because the MCC’s attached to them were listed as something other than gambling, which
meant the blocks and other safeguarding measures he’d put in place didn’t prevent them
from being made.
Mr K feels that Starling should have raised chargebacks because the merchants and
whoever was involved in processing their transactions used the wrong MCC’s. The relevant
card scheme operator here was Mastercard. Our service has directly contacted Mastercard
about scenarios where merchants and/or their acquirers/payment processors have used
incorrect MCC’s to mask gambling transactions. Mastercard has directly confirmed to us that
there are no chargeback rights for any sort of gambling transactions, such as the ones Mr K
made, and there were no chargeback codes applicable where incorrect MCC’s have been
used. Mastercard also confirmed to us that, had a bank such as Starling submitted a
chargeback request in circumstances such as Mr K’s, this wouldn’t have been successful
had this been sent to them to decide.
I’ve also considered what Mr K has said about being the victim of a scam. However, I’ve
mentioned above that Mr K did get the services he requested and authorised, which was that
he transferred money to the websites in question to gamble. So, I don’t think the rules
around fraud chargebacks apply here.
I’m aware that Mr K has made successful chargeback claims with other banks. However,
that was a decision made by those banks. That doesn’t mean Starling were bound to do the
same though. I’ve also noted that Mr K has referred to other decisions made by ombudsmen
(one of which was mine), where the decisions have been upheld in favour of the consumers.
However, the circumstances of each case are different and I’m considering the specific
circumstances of Mr K’s complaint and whether Starling acted fairly.
I of course appreciate the impact this matter has had on Mr K, particularly as he had taken
several measures to try to protect himself from gambling. However, I can only assess
whether I think Starling were wrong not to not raise chargebacks for him. And, bearing in
mind what Mastercard has directly told us about this, I’m satisfied that Starling didn’t act
unfairly when they decided not to raise chargebacks on Mr K’s behalf.
Hej,
možeš li mi poslati imejl [email protected]
U imejlu koji si mi poslao piše da ne prepoznaju kancelariju, ali plaćanje
Hey,
can you email me on [email protected]
the email u sent me are saying they don’t recognise the office but payment
Zdravo Keli,
Da, neko od ostalih mi je to poslao, veoma cenim 🙂
Hi Kelly,
Yes one of the other sent it to me, much appreciated 🙂
Ne mogu reći da sam iznenađen. Žalba se pravilno odbija, uz navod da je banka postupila ispravno.
Način da se prođe kroz ovaj proces je da zatražite od svoje banke povraćaj sredstava zbog toga što niste primili robu od sumnjivog trgovca. Mnogi su ovde objavili kako da podnesu zahtev za povraćaj sredstava. Ako potvrdite svojoj banci da ste uplatili depozit u kazino, banka jednostavno nema pravo da podnese zahtev za povraćaj sredstava u većini slučajeva, uprkos MCC kodu i razlogu.
Pošto kazino zloupotrebljava MCC kod kako bi dozvolio depozite u svoj kazino bez obeležavanja i mogućeg blokiranja, potrošač mora da pronađe trgovca i kontaktira ga tražeći povraćaj novca zbog nedostatka primljene robe. Pošto većina trgovaca ne odgovara, imate jasan dokaz da ste pokušali da rešite ovo bezuspešno tražeći od banke da interveniše i pokrene povraćaj sredstava.
Jedini problem je što, s obzirom na to da ova tema ima 2,6 miliona pregleda, ne samo igrači i kazina će je pronaći, već i banke koje verovatno nisu spremne da ulože trud i rad u ovom procesu. Ne čitam sve objave, ali dok je prošle i 2023. godine većina trgovaca sarađivala i odmah vratila novac, sada su svesni ovog zaobilaznog načina i spremni su da se bore protiv povraćaja sredstava dok se nadaju da će potrošač/igrač izgubiti novac. Međutim, trgovci neće da govore o transakcijama kockanja jer bi to dovelo do suspenzije njihovog trgovačkog ugovora sa kartičnim šemama i moglo bi dovesti do ozbiljnih kazni, pa će pokušati da dokažu da su isporučili robu, što je nemoguće jer nemaju vašu adresu i druge relevantne lične podatke.
Can't say that I am surprised. The complaint is being refused properly stating that the bank has acted correctly.
The way to walk this process is to ask your bank for a chargeback for not receiving goods by the dodgy merchant. Many have posted here how to raise chargebacks, if you acknowledge to your bank that you made a deposit to a casino the bank simply is not allowed to raise a chargeback in most cases despite the MCC code and reason.
Since the casino is abusing the MCC code to allow deposits to its casino without being flagged and possibly blocked, the consumer has to track down the merchant and contact this asking for a refund due to a lack of receiving goods. As most merchants don't respond you have clear evidence that you tried to solve this without success asking the bank to intervene and raise a chargeback.
The only problem is that given this topic having 2.6million views, not only players and casinos will find this topic but banks too that are likely not happy to put effort and work in this process. I don't read all posts but where last year and 2023 most merchants cooperated and refunded the money instantly they now are aware of this work around and also are prepared to fight a chargeback until some way hoping the consumer/player lose them. The merchants however, wont speak about gambling transactions as that would lead to a suspension of their merchant agreement with the card schemes and could lead to severe penalties so they will try to proof that they did deliver the goods which is impossible as they don't have your address and other relevant personal details.
Dobio sam isti tretman, ali ni približno tako složen odgovor kao ti, samo nekoliko redova ignorišete bilo šta o tome da je sajt ilegalan, predstavljajući ga kao pravi i autentičan sajt.
I got the same treatment but no where near as complex an answer as you just a few lines ignoring anything about the site being illegal making out its a real site and genuine
Zdravo Sajmone,
Možete li mi, molim vas, proslediti i Kelina uputstva?
Bilo bi mi od velike pomoći. 🙏🏻
Hvala unapred.
Hi Simon,
could you please pass me Kelly's instructions as well?
It would be a great help. 🙏🏻
Thanks in advance.
Besplatni profesionalni edukativni kursevi za zaposlene u online kazinima usmereni na najbolje prakse u industriji, poboljšanje iskustva igrača i pošten pristup kockanju.
Inicijativu koju smo pokrenuli s ciljem stvaranja globalnog sistema samoisključenja, koji će omogućiti ranjivim igračima da blokiraju pristup svim mogućnostima online kockanja.
Casino.guru je nezavistan izvor informacija o online kazinima i online kazino igrama, i nije kontrolisan od strane bilo kojeg operatora igara ili bilo koje druge institucije. Sve naše recenzije i vodiči su kreirani iskreno, u skladu sa najboljim znanjem i rasuđivanjem naših članova iz ekspertskog tima; ipak ovaj sadržaj je napravljen u informativne svrhe i ne bi smeo i trebao da se tumači kao pravni savet. Bitno je da uvek ispunite sve regulatorne zahteve pre nego počnete igrati u određenom kazinu.
Proverite svoj inboks i kliknite na link koji smo Vam poslali:
[email protected]
Link će isteći za 72 časa.
Proverite svoj "Spam" ili "Promotions" folder ili kliknite na dugme ispod.
Konformacioni e-mail je poslat ponovo.
Proverite svoj inboks i kliknite na link koji smo Vam poslali: [email protected]
Link će isteći za 72 časa.
Proverite svoj "Spam" ili "Promotions" folder ili kliknite na dugme ispod.
Konformacioni e-mail je poslat ponovo.
Uskoro ćete biti preusmereni na stranicu kazina. Molimo sačekajte. Ako koristite softver za blokiranje oglasa, proverite podešavanja.