Casino Gurun valitusprosessi hylättiin kaikista VÄÄRISTÄ syistä

I have a complex case with Fezbet casino regarding violations of the Terms of Service (services not provided), violations of Promotional terms (bonus not credited, the wagering time not provided, wagering progresses taken away and resetted), arguably responsible gambling rules not taken seriously, pursuing a player into losing the balance (while account is being limited and can’t withdraw available funds) etc. and additional problems that increased the effects of the other issues with further ToS violations, such as not responding to complaints (for 49 days – the balance was stuck during this time), not providing chat logs so it could be used as proof (4 months) and so on.

I submitted a complaint yesterday, and it was denied for the following reasons: (I couldn't attach the picture of the verdict on my complaint, so here's the link to it)  -  https://imgur.com/a/LuzkByw

I don’t want to go into the details of the case because it’s extremely long (15 A4 pages) and no one would read this thread. I believe anyone from the Casino Guru team can access the complaint associated with my account.

So to reflect to the mentioned reasons:

„we only assist players who focus on online casino games, rather than sports betting" – First of all my case has nearly nothing to do with sports betting and everything to do with ToS violations, dirty practices, agreements not being met, and service not being provided normally.

Remember, this has been done by platform promoted here with a very nice review score, so it should be taken seriously.

Also an account on Fezbet is a casino and a sports betting account at the same time, they also "share" the same balance. Thereby you can’t separate it to be an only "sports betting" related issue. (I also lost balances through casino games during the process so here’s some extra reason to handle it, but the method through which I played is seriously not relevant from the case’s point of view)

"we also cannot request compensation from the casino for an overall negative experience, uncredited bonuses, or currency exchange differences" – Only someone who didn’t read through my case would bring these up as reasons. These are half-truths or not relevant to the case. I will reflect on these separately.

"for an overall negative experience" – As I mentioned it is a series of violations, sabotaged services, basically if this is not a case for a complaint, then what is? (the so called negative experiences are just bonuses --> at least a bonus Fezbet didn’t fail to provide)

"uncredited bonuses" – My issues with bonuses included them not being credited (straight up false advertisement, as it encouraged me to deposit --> how dirty of a practice is that?), the added bonuses being cancelled every 2-3 days during wagering (it’s written in the terms that they provide 30 days for wagering --> terms violated causing damages), with these cancellations they took all wagering progresses (violation, damages, everything) as well. So to say that my case is about uncredited bonuses is just not true.

"currency exchange differences" – This is literally only mentioned once in a 15 page long text as an example for further failures and has nothing specific to do with my case.

Overall, I was surprised by this treatment of my case (so far), because the description of complaint handling here gave me an impression of precision and maximalism from Casino Guru. For example, those parts where they mention that: they ask for additional info if they don’t understand something, they discuss complex cases together etc.

These have not taken place and my case was pushed aside without any discussion. They also don’t seem to provide direct access to them, for further talk. I hope we can find a way to talk this through in detail, so my issue gets resolved, and situations like this don’t need to be as hard as it is in my case.

I am really sorry that our complaint team couldn't help you with all these, but I am sure that everything was explained to you by email regarding the reasons.

It is true that we don't deal with sports betting because we have no experts for that, actually.

So, if the winnings are accumulated from sports betting and then some kind of issue arises, we are unable to investigate those, even though, as you said, it is some kind of violation of terms from the casino's side. It is still related to sports betting, you know, because the winnings were from there.

Then when it comes to bonuses, we are unable to do much, as offering a bonus is only on each casino, and also when they offer it, to whom do they offer it, and what terms do they put on each bonus.

With all this said, our hands are sometimes tied, and we can't go anywhere in such cases, you know.

I hope that you can understand our side of this now.

Hello Romi,

First of all I will respond to the reasons brought up by you, so it doesn’t look like I’m trying to evade anything here. 😊

But the main reasons will be in my next post, so the message doesn’t get lost in the long text.

 „I am sure that everything was explained to you by email regarding the reasons." – That’s not true. I’ve linked the picture associated with the email in my original post, but here it is again.

These reasonings are not accurate at all, as I explained it in the previous post, and this is all I received. No questions, no discussion started, straight up rejected for reasons that are not even true in my case.

„So, if the winnings are accumulated from sports betting and then some kind of issue arises, we are unable to investigate those" – I understand that you don’t have expertise on sports betting outcomes and specifics related to sports betting, but you don’t need any of this in my case.  You can’t say that you are unable to do something, when you are actually doing it on a daily basis.

I know you are capable of understanding the following elements (because that’s what you do in other cases):

• Understanding Terms of Service violations (All you have to do is read the ToS and compare how the casino handled my case and how they provided their services not in accordance to it)
• Promotional terms (I know, that you know the concept of "days" and I know that you know the concept of "wagering", thereby you do understand all of my bonus related issues. If a casino bonus with a 30 days wagering time and 20x wagering requirement is getting cancelled every 3-4 days, with all wagering progress resetted to 0% that is later not added back, is a violation. It doesn’t matter if it’s an only slot related bonus, only blackjack related bonus, sports betting related bonus, or a kindergarden contest, the violation of the rules is clear.) --> The violation and the damages were not justified in any way by the casino, so you don’t have to understand anything that is sports betting related, because there are no reasons to. The reason for the cancellations to happen was a mixture of incompetence and the weakly engineered technical background of the platform.
• Dirty practices, responsible gambling guidelines violated and other ethical rules (You actually know way more about these than I do so there should be no issues representing me regarding these)
• Cause and effect relationships (If you can understand how one issue leads to another, and how the summary of these issues are leading to the losses, then we are good to go. If you understand when a customer’s responsibility end and the casino’s begin, then we are ready to proceed)

"It is still related to sports betting, you know, because the winnings were from there." –  While I understand what you are saying here (that you might not have the expertise to determine if taking away my winnings were valid or not), you don’t need to have that kind of knowledge, as there are no limitations on bets and winnings regarding that bonus anyway, BUT this is not even the main point, as I mentioned above, the reason for them to take away my ongoing bonus was not deliberate, but the outcome of technical failures (the system cancelled the bonus by automatically adding a new offer). It’s a simple concept. It can be questioned the same way you’d question them if it happened to a casino bonus

"our hands are sometimes tied, and we can't go anywhere in such cases, you know." – There is absolutely no reason for your hands to be tied in my case. I have proofs, I have justifications, I have reasons, and unlike what you claim, you have the expertise necessary, and also a platform on which you can represent my case.

I don't feel like my issue is being understood correctly, I know that it's a hard to understand case, as it contains so many kinds of issues. For this reason, I would like to simplify the big problem and the solution I require:

The loss I suffered is the direct cause of the service not being provided in accordance with the ToS of the site (a dozen different problems and violations). I would like to get compensated for that.

That's it.

The story and aspects that the complaint should focus on: The balance of the customer got locked up for 4 months, the constant violations of the terms and conditions, with the poorly provided service, and the lack of proper and clear communication with important deadlines not being met, resulted in the customer’s losses, which makes the company partly or fully responsible, thereby a compensation is deemed necessary.

Specifics:

1.      Bonus that encouraged the customer to deposit in the first place, not being credited in time (false advertisement, dirty practice) -- > Consequence: Initiated the whole process that led to the damages, affected the outcome of the bonus

2.      When credited, the wagering circumstances were not provided in accordance with the promotional terms (promotional terms violation): The bonus frequently got cancelled by technical issues (30 days of wagering reduced to 3-4 days), wagering progress resetted to 0% every time, and not adjusted later, the re-credited balance was not equal to the balance of the customer when the bonus was cancelled. From1,300,000 HUF reduced to 815,200 HUF that’s something which effected his options and put him in a less favorable situation during the wagering process-- > Consequence: Prolonged the wagering process by at least 4 weeks, that delay put the customer in a situation, when he had to face another 70 days without withdrawal options (through prolonged verification process). Also the failures mentioned during the bonus process contributed to smaller potential winnings for the customer (as he had to restart the wagering many times, thereby was unnecessarily required to bet the amounts on further events that were unfavorable for him)

3.      Verification process took 70 days due to a variety of issues caused by the company throughout the process (service not being provided as it could be expected)

- Service issues on the website: verification page was unavailable for an extended period of time, there by the main channel with the verification department was closed

- Lack of help by available company representatives: Live chat agents couldn’t provide viable information regarding the process, VIP manager ignored the questions, complaint department didn’t reply within the set deadline (exceeded it with an outstanding 39 days)

- Poor communication by the verification department: Once the customer received indirect access to the verification department, the responses, requirements, reasonings and conculsions were not clear, they were contradicting and thereby they were hard to fulfill. These have caused weeks of additional delays.

-- > Consequence: It put the customer into an impossible situation where the balance was not available for withdrawals for an extended amount of time, even though he showed to be proactive during the process, he didn’t receive obligatory assistance for which the company has to take responsibility as it is not normal procedure

4.      Complaint handling deadline not being met (ToS violation): During all the issues, the customer faced, he abided the requirement of the Terms of Service, and he’s detailed his issues in a formal complaint and sent it to the company. As the ToS requested he didn’t involve 3rd party complaint handlers.

The company didn’t respect the 10 day complaint processing deadline stated in the ToS, exceeded it by 39 days, which puts the company responsible for the issues that arouse during this time, as the responsibility shifts from the customer to the company after deadlines are not being respected, especially if they have an effect on the customers balance and mental state.

5.      Compensation attempt was not in accordance with responsible gambling guidelines, as the player implied that he had issues with playing his balance during his account not being verified: Throughout the process in a formal complaint to the company and through chat and phone calls with his VIP manager (only channel towards the management) he implied that he had issues playing with a balance that is not available for withdrawal, he pointed this to be the cause of the losses, and while the company found it to be a justified reason, repeated the issue altogether. The compensation provided by the company was during the time the customer was still vulnerable (due to his withdrawal limitation). He was put in a position if he wanted to get his balance back, he had to wager the amount, while the rules of the compensation were not stated clearly. This wagering requirement made it impossible for the customer to limit his account for gambling activities if he wanted to eventually withdraw his balance. A balance that should’ve been available to him months before.

Conclusion: While the customer played off his balance, it was the actions, pursuits and the many violations of the terms of service by the operator  that led to these circumstances.

While the customer obliged and respected the ToS, he only received further delays and unfair disadvantages by it, while each violation of the ToS by the casino’s side gave it an unfair advantage, as these violations affected the customer.

The responsibility of losses has shifted from the customer to the operator once they’ve failed to meet important deadlines regarding the solution of the different issues.

I believe these are the main issues that a complaint handler should focus on in this case.

And finally the definition of a complaint: "to formally express dissatisfaction with a product, service, or the actions of an organization or individual, with the expectation of a response or resolution. Complaints serve as a mechanism for individuals to voice their concerns, seek redress, and for organizations to identify areas for improvement and enhance their service delivery."

This is all I want Casino Guru to provide, nothing more and definitely nothing less.

Thank you for your extensive reply.

In your case it is really unneccesary to write all this here on our forum, becasue as you can see, no complaints are handled here.

If you feel that our complaint tam didn't understand your issue well, or you still feel after all what was explained to you that we should help you, please contact them by email.

Unfotunately, though, I can tell you that there won't be much you will achieve. Please understand that if we really can help a player with their issues at online casino, we surely would do everything to do so, but if there is no way we can do something regarding the issue or issues they are experiencing, we unfortunately don't. That's it, simply said.

Well, I didn't receive any contact info to further discuss my case with them.

They sent the verdict from a no-reply email.

You can contact our complaint team at any time at complaint@casino.guru.

First of all, thank you!

I mailed them, although it's been over 4 days now without a response (over 100 hours). When can I expect a reply? The case itself was dismissed in less than a couple of hours.

Please know that we have to deal with hundreds of emails every day, so whenever your time comes up and it is worth communicating or our team sees that something can really be done, you will receive an email.

I understand that. But it's been ongoing for 8 days overall. My case has been dismissed very quickly on reasons that suggest that my case wasn't looked into in detail/understood correctly.

As from the 3 reasons provided, one of the reasons shouldn't apply on the case and 2 other reasons are just inconveniences that I don't seek compensation for, those were only mentioned to highligh how many issues are there, and even basic services were violated.

All I want is my case to be handled or at least reasonable and related causes to be mentioned.

I surely understand your point here. Unfortunately, though, it is not possible for me to do much to help.

If your complaint resolver or our complaint team decides that we are unable to work on your case, unfortunately it can't be changed, you know.

And please know that we would really like to help everyone, but in the real world it is not possible, and you know that.

The point here regarding this email is not that they can or can't "help". They could help if they just publicised my case and asked the casino about it, but whatever.

The point is that noone reflects to simple questions. My email wasn't even that long, it would've taken someone probably 2-3 minutes to answer it.

But it seems like I don't even worth that 2-3 minutes. That's indefensible from a customer's point of view.

Or do you look at this otherwise?

I look at it the way that, unfortunately, we were unable to help you with your situation, as I already said many times.

I've got nothing more to say to this now.

That's the issue, noone seems to have anything to say about any of my concerns.

You were saying that if you could, then you would help me.

Well, you could help me 1) with publicising the case 2) answering my questions 3) providing some advice.

This was the only thing your complaint department advised: "our best adice would be to find another casino"

To a person who has straight up been wronged. 😀

I can see the PR in your answers but this is indefensible, that all your complaint department did was this.

Not answering any of my follow up questions, not addressing my concerns etc. This is not a proper service at this point.

Imagine the level of entitlement needed to say you are not satisfied as a customer about a complaint on guru. For something casino guru does for free. Like... you arent even a customer my guy.

I can see why both the casino and guru dont wanna talk to you. Get a grip bro.

You are wrong. Just because the service is free, it doesn't mean that it should be bad, not thorough or not customer centric etc.

Imagine that I volunteer to deliver leaflets to the neighbourhood for free. I then rip some of them apart, throw them in the mud, don't deliver them to the door, and leave out some houses altogether. Are you satisfied with my free service?

You either do it properly or don't do it at all. If you ask money for the service or not, that's another question.

I put in the time, to write the complaint, provide full context etc. because I think that the reason for refusal is unjustified. They didn't address this at all, thereby they wasted my time which is more important than money.

You need to understand that we are only mediators between casinos and our users, and we help only if there is a possibility to do that. In your case there is no possibility, so please stop going in rounds here and try to understand it finally.

Thank you. This is my last message to you regarding your issue.

Thank you for your understanding.