WinDetta Casino - Pelaajan tili suljettiin epäreilusti merkittävien voittojen jälkeen.

Hello CasinoGuru team,

I appear to be the latest victim of the WinDetta Casino "account closed due to a gambling addiction" tactic.

I will be providing a detailed overview of my case below, as well as attachments that back my claims up.

• January 12th - I signed up to WinDetta casino, I made a deposit of 75EUR, and activated a bonus of 125% the deposit amount; I then wagered this bonus completely and ended up with a balance of around 1000EUR.
• January 13th - I sent my verification documents on their automatic verification page, as well as at kyc@windetta.com. I kept playing using the balance mentioned, and I eventually reached a balance of 2000EUR, which I decided to withdraw. (documented in attachments)
• January 14th - I looked up WinDetta casino on CasinoGuru, and I was worried when I found some cases of players having their accounts closed when trying to withdraw money. Knowing I had previously played on Altacore casinos and self-excluded there, I sent them an e-mail reclarifying that I NEVER self-excluded in their casinos due to a gambling problem/addiction etc. (documented in attachments). I never received an e-mail answering my verification status, or to the aforementioned e-mail I sent to them.
• January 15th (around 14:30 GMT+1) - I was trying to log into my account, and, of course, it was blocked "due to a gambling addiction". The casino refunded my deposit of 75EUR on my Skrill account. I did not receive any e-mail regarding this closure. I tried to contact them via Live Chat (which pointed me to their support team at support@windetta.com). I sent an e-mail to that address, with no reply as of now.

Further details:

• I have previously played on Altacore casinos, and I have self-excluded from some of them, mentioning the reason as "too many losses", which can be interpreted in many ways, but what I meant was simply that I was losing too much on these casinos without getting any wins, which made gambling on such websites no longer desirable to me.
• I last played at an Altacore casino in 2022.
• I have used a different e-mail address to register to WinDetta than to the casinos that I registered to in 2022, as I was simply using a new e-mail address.
• I have used a new home address as well as I moved places in 2023.

Now for the kicker:

• On January 11th I also created an account with Wintopia Casino, which is another Altacore casino. This casino shares most of the terms and conditions with WinDetta, including article "7.5. If a player closes his casino account due to "problems with gambling" / "loss of self-control over the game" / "gambling addiction", in this case, the player is prohibited from playing on the sites of the casino partners, which are indicated in the license of this casino.".
• I quickly won a sum of 500EUR and requested verification and the withdrawal of that sum, in the exact same methods and documents as on WinDetta.
• On January 12th, the Wintopia team notified me that my account was successfully verified (documented in attachments).
• On January 15th (around 8:30 GMT+1), my withdrawal of 500EUR was processed and in my Skrill wallet (documented in attachments).
• At the moment of writing this, my Wintopia account is still accessible.

I can accept my account being closed, as it is in their rights to not accept me as a player, but I think closing my account with such a significant sum in it is just predatory behavior, and I am concerned about how many people they are profiting off of in this way, while they still have a positive rating on this website.

I am hoping for a favorable solution, as I have seen WinDetta can do right by their players and come around and eventually pay their winnings. I am hoping that the sum of 1925 EUR (my withdrawal requests - the 75EUR they sent back to me) will be in my account as soon as possible.

Hello Mkhitaryan27,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with WinDetta Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account got verified before it was closed down? Did you accumulate your winnings with real money or did you use a bonus? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and did they respond regarding the false exclusion?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Nick,

My account was not verified. Like I mentioned, I had sent all of the documents that I used to verify successfully on the other Altacore casino, but I never received a reply. Before my account got closed, I could see that they only verified my Skrill payment method.

The winnings resulted from a bonus, but I only played on the allowed games and with a maximum bet of 2EUR.

The casino never responded to any emails I sent at kyc@windetta.com and support@windetta.com. They only responded in live chat, asking me to write to support@windetta.com.

I had a better look at the term 7.5 in WinDetta’s T&Cs and they mention that their partners are specified in their license. As shown in the pictures below, WinDetta and Wintopia share the exact same license, which means that me being able to verify myself, play and withdraw on Wintopia but not on Windetta is just the casino deciding to apply their Terms and Conditions however it suits them best.

Another crucial point for my case is that I have opened the WinDetta account AFTER I was successfully verified on Wintopia, meaning that even if I was aware of all the relationships between these casinos, I would have no possible way to assume that I am breaking any rules by registering to WinDetta.

I can only prove when my Wintopia account was verified, because I received no confirmation of my registration to WinDetta (but I am sure that the casino could provide that information).

Hello Mkhitaryan27 and thank you for all the information provided. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Hello, Mkhitaryan27,

Thank you for your email with additional information, and I apologize for the delay.

I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Now I would like to invite WinDetta Casino's representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear WinDetta Casino team,

Could you please provide us with an explanation of the player's situation in more detail? Why has the player's account been closed and winnings confiscated? What steps should the player take to unblock the account and withdraw the disputed funds?

If we are talking about a breach of the casino's Terms and Conditions, is the casino able to substantiate its decision with relevant evidence?

Feel free to send the necessary evidence to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

Hello Windetta Casino and Branislav,

Thank you for the quick reply here, Windetta casino.

This claim that I "bypassed a blocking system" seems very unfounded to me. Why would any player intentionally bypass any blocking system, knowing full well that the only possible result is losing money or having their account closed when winning? There are so many casinos out there, why would anyone ever take that risk? Whatever "system" you might have in place is clearly designed so that it is easily possible for players to go through it, lose money, or win and have their accounts closed. If your "system" is just checking for the email address or the player's address, I don't think much more needs to be said regarding that.

I would like to assume my mistake regarding Snatch Casino, even though this is the first time I'm learning that Snatch Casino is also an Altacore casino. I checked my old mail and I did not find any communication with Snatch Casino, but I am not denying there has been some, I must have just deleted the email.

I submitted my complaint with communication that I found in my email regarding the Altacore casinos that are listed on Casino Guru under "casinos related to Windetta", I am now realizing there might be many more Altacore casinos that I just don't know of.

I am maintaining that it is very difficult to find all the casinos that are related to Windetta and a part of the Altacore group. Having a term that can result in the player's account being closed WITH a balance still in it, while the complete information is not available on the website itself (in this case all the other casinos that are partners) cannot be described as anything but a predatory practice.

I am also maintaining that even if I had a list of all the Altacore casinos and knew that I self-excluded in some of them before registering to Windetta, the successful verification & withdrawal on Wintopia, another Altacore casino, just days prior would be extremely confusing and clearly make me think that I'm not breaking any rules.

I am also citing this paragraph that I found in the CasinoGuru Fair Gambling Codex:

"If the casino belongs to a bigger group of casinos, players should be made aware of this when self-excluding. Ideally, players should be given the option to self-exclude from one casino only or self-exclude from all of them. All casinos should be listed, otherwise players will not know which casinos are related.

Regardless of what players do, if a casino let's someone play despite having a self-exclusion in a related casino, not being supposed to play should not be used as a reason to withhold their winnings."

I think Windetta Casino is breaking both of these Fair Gambling rules.

I am hoping that Windetta Casino can see the facts of the matter and reconsider its decision.

Furthermore, let’s look at the wording of this rule:

- 7.5. If a player closes his casino account due to "problems with gambling" / "loss of self-control over the game" / "gambling addiction", in this case, the player is prohibited from playing on the sites of the casino partners, which are indicated in the license of this casino

With the way it is worded, this rule does not specifically apply to the casino the rule is written on. In other words, the rule is not written as, for example, "A player cannot register to this casino if he/she has previously self-excluded at a partner casino". The rule expects that someone reads and remembers a rule that was written on a different casino, again where the full list of casinos for which this applies is not readily available on the casino’s page itself.

There is also rule 7.3: "If you want to delete your account due to gambling addiction, or your account was blocked by due to fraudulent activities, you agree to never create a new account on this Website. The Company is not responsible for any losses you may incur after opening a new account. We reserve the right to delete an account violating these conditions at any time." This rule is more clearly stated, and points out that a player only agrees to never create a new account on the website if they deleted their account / got their account blocked for fraudulent activities on WinDetta itself.

So, a player registering to this casino is essentially only agreeing to not play on other partner casinos once they close the account in the casino that the rule is mentioned on. I would dare say that a player who has self-excluded on a different Altacore casino, no matter what the apparent reason is, is not breaking any T&Cs on WinDetta by registering and playing with the way T&C 7.5 is worded. If anything, they're breaking the T&Cs of other casinos.

The rule also doesn’t mention any future casinos that the group will open, so even if a list of casinos was provided at the point of my self-exclusion, WinDetta wouldn’t be mentioned as it didn’t exist, since the casino apparently opened in 2023 and I last played at an Altacore casino in 2022. This means I would not even be breaking the T&Cs of their other casinos since there is no mention of the rule applying retroactively to their new casinos.

So let’s say a player is extremely dilligent and keeps a very detailed list of all the casinos they have played and self-excluded at, as well as all the other casinos specific groups own. The player is then expected to keep updating the list as the group opens more and more casinos and assume they are not allowed to play in the new casino.

Assuming I had taken all of those precautions and interpreted everything how the casino expects people to interpret their rules, when I opened an account at Wintopia, got verified and withdrew some money, the only natural conclusion would be that I am allowed to play on Altacore casinos that opened after my self-exclusion in 2022. Thus, the claim that I bypassed any "systems" cannot possibly be valid, and in the case that such systems did exist, they were insufficient, or, more likely in my opinion, designed so that the casino could take advantage of people.

Thank you both for your replies.

Dear WinDetta Casino Team,

Can you please look at my last email regarding the matter and provide me with additional details?

Dear Mkhitaryan27,

You did not request a self-exclusion at Snatch Casino only due to "too many losses", as you claimed above. Your self-exclusion request was formulated in a way that indicated a problem with gambling.

In addition, after reviewing your emails sent to the casino before your account closure, it looks like you were aware of the self-exclusion made in their sister casino(s). You even mentioned it in your emails directed to Windetta Casino before your account became closed.

Did you fill out the same personal details in Wintopia and Windetta when registering at these casinos?

Do I understand correctly that you thought it would be OK to register in Windetta Casino after you successfully verified your account at Wintopia Casino and withdrew from it without any issues?

Hi Branislav,

Here is my 100% honest answer to your questions:

I do not know what I wrote to Snatch Casino, as I didn't receive any communication from the casino and I apparently didn't keep the emails that I sent to them when I self-excluded. I learned that Snatch Casino was also a partner to WinDetta when WinDetta responded in this thread. I am not denying I might have formulated it in a way that makes me seem like I had a gambling addiction. I do not have one, however, and I might have said that so that they close the account quickly.

I was aware of self-exclusions, because, as I mentioned before, I looked up the casino’s partners on CasinoGuru when I won the 2000EUR sum, started the verification process, then checked CasinoGuru reviews of WinDetta and saw that they tend to close player's accounts when winning. I then remembered playing in some of them and looked up in my email for any proof of my self-exclusions.

I filled in the exact same information on both Wintopia and WinDetta, just days apart. The information is 100% identical, same email, same name and birthday (of course), same phone number. The two casinos can definitely provide proof of this. I don't have any reason to hide my identity, as it would obviously stop me from being able to verify.

I would like to reiterate the truth that I wasn't aware of the relationships between the many Altacore casinos when registering to Wintopia or WinDetta, including the relationship between WinDetta and Wintopia. As such, I did not register to WinDetta thinking it would be alright because of my interactions with Wintopia specifically. I registered to both these casinos to have a good time playing some slots, and happened to win on both of them.

I am just saying that in hindsight, even if a player was aware of all of those connections, they would think it's fine to play at WinDetta casino just days after being able to play, be verified, and withdraw on a sister casino.

I think that these circumstances should give the player benefit of the doubt. The incident with Snatch Casino must have happened in 2022 as I don't have any transactions to Altacore in my Skrill or bank account since then. It has been more than a year since then, and I think it's unreasonable to expect players to remember all the casinos you own, when you don't provide a list anywhere, and your T&C that enforces this rule is vague and doesn't mention future casinos that the group will open. Can it be denied that a player, when self-excluding at Snatch Casino in 2022, is not supposed to know that this also applies at WinDetta casino, which did not exist? If WinDetta casino’s terms specifically said "A player cannot play here if they previously self-excluded at a partner casino.", and then provided a full list of these casinos, I agree that the player would be completely in the wrong.

I fully agree to be more careful and never play on an Altacore casino from now on, now that I know of all these relationships and how many casinos they own, but I think that the winnings that were obtained completely fairly after wagering a bonus for many hours, having a lot of fun doing so, should be given to me.

Have a great evening, and I am still hopeful for a positive resolution.

Just to summarize the above for clarity:

• My claims from when I submitted the complaint were based on casinos that I found to be related to WinDetta on CasinoGuru. I found some emails sent to some of these casinos, where I just mentioned "too many losses" as the reason of closure. I did not know Snatch Casino was also a WinDetta partner until WinDetta’s reply here.
• I became aware of the sister casino situation after registering, winning, and submitting my documents to WinDetta. This was also after I was successfully verified on Wintopia. My account at WinDetta was registered on the 12th of January and I looked at the casino’s reviews on the 14th of January, which led to me finding complaints that mentioned sister casinos, and thus I found out that I also had played in some of them earlier.
• The exact same information was used when registering to both Wintopia and WinDetta. The exception is the username, which WinDetta didn’t request and instead provided a random player number.
• I did not sign up to WinDetta specifically because of my successful verification and withdrawal on Wintopia. This is because, like I mentioned, I wasn’t aware of the sister casino situation. However, if I or any other player had been aware, the Wintopia interaction would have definitely made me think I am allowed to play.

In any case, WinDetta's claim that I intentionally bypassed a system that they implemented cannot hold any truth. If I had tried to bypass any systems, why would I use my name and birthday unaltered? My full name is quite a unique combination, my first name includes a "-" character, and paired with my birthday and my country of residence (my name is definitely unique in Denmark), any casino that honestly tries to prevent a player from registering could have immediately detected that and banned my account automatically.

My only goal with registering to both these casinos was to play some Push Gaming games since I enjoy playing those. Whenever I want to play some casino games, I search Google for something like "online casinos Denmark" and look through different websites to see if they have the games I like in my country. It just so happened that I found these two casinos in a short period. If I had known that I was not allowed to play in these casinos, I would have just looked further for other places to play, as I am not interested in risking money with no potential upsides.

Wintopia staff didn't think that I wasn't allowed to play, however, since they allowed me to verify my account and withdraw, so I'm wondering to which degree are all the Altacore casinos actually related, and how are players supposed to know which one is related to another? To add to this confusion, I remembered that WinDetta did not allow me to play Push Gaming games while I had a bonus balance active, so I had to play some other games to wager the bonus. Wintopia did let me play Push Gaming games with no restrictions, so I was quite surprised to see that they are also owned by Altacore when I checked them out on CasinoGuru.

Hello Windetta Casino,

Thank you for understanding my situation and providing me with a solution to this matter.

I can confirm that the specified Skrill address is open and belongs to me.

Thank you both for your replies and additional information.

Although I have not received any further email from the casino, it is great to see that things moved forward and they were able and willing to reconsider its initial decision.

Dear WinDetta Casino Team,

Feel free to let us know when the refund is processed or when can the player expect the payment.

Mkhitaryan27 also can inform us about a successful refund. We will need his confirmation anyway.

Hi all,

I can confirm receiving the disputed amount.

Thank you CasinoGuru for helping out, and thank you WinDetta casino for being able to change your decision.

I saw that WinDetta casino changed the wording of T&C 7.5 following this complaint, but I still believe players should get more information if you want to avoid situations like this in the future.

Dear Mkhitaryan27,

2024-01-15 You received a refund in the amount of 75 EUR.

2024-02-13 The amount of 1925 EUR was refunded with the help of Skrill payment system.

Please be notified that the payment for your account has been successfully made. Please confirm receipt of the funds.

Sincerely,

Risk department of Windetta Casino.

Thank you, Mkhitaryan27, for confirmation and for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution centre. I am very glad you have received your funds. As the issue has been successfully resolved, I will now mark your complaint as 'resolved' in our system. Although I sincerely hope it will not happen, please do not hesitate to contact us in the future if you run into any issues with this or any other casino. We are here to help.

Thank you very much too, WinDetta Casino Team, for your help and cooperation!

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.guru